http://mmrpg.zeitgeistgames.com/index.p ... opic&t=594

gsvenson:
This is a thread where members of the original Blackmoor campaign can post their recollections. This idea originated from my encountering Bob Meyers, who is also known as Robert the Bald in Blackmoor's "history", on Rafael's Wayfarer's Inn web site and starting to discuss what we remember via e-mails. I am hoping that Bob will have a chance to post some of his recollections and that we will both invite some of the other former players to participate, too.

I was a member of a gaming group in Excelsior, Minnesota back in the late '60s. The group consisted of Scott and Dave Belfry, Bob and Mike Meyer, Fred Funk, Tim Seamans, Steve Randenberg, my brother Fred and myself. Initially, we played historical board games every week, mostly produced by Avalon Hill. We also tried some aincient miniatures games, as I recall.

We joined a national gaming group. I can't remember the name, Agressor's Homeland or something like that. That brought us in contact with Richard and John Snyder, Marshall Hegfelt and Mike Carr (he had a WWI air combat group - the Fight in the Skies Society). Marshall Hegfelt took me to a meeting of the Midwest Military History Association, which was based at the University of Minnesota in Minneapolis at the time (1969). I met Dave Arneson there. I pulled the rest of our little group into the Napoleonic miniatures campaign Dave was running at the time and then into Blackmoor when that got going.

I have written details of two of those early Blackmoor adventures at my website http://web.tampabay.rr.com/gsvenson/svenny Unfortuantely, while I participated in literally hundreds of adventures those two are the only ones I could remember clearly enough to feel it was worth writing up the details I can still remember from them.

[I edited this to correct the spelling of Bob's last name and to add my brother to the list of players in our original group.]

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tadkil:
Thank you for that!

_________________
Tad L. J. Kilgore
Executive Producer

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Havard:
Thanks for sharing Greg! I love hearing tales of old Blackmoor campaigns, especially those with Dave himself in the DM's chair.

I have heard that Dave's DMing style is quite unusual. Do you remember any examples that could illustrate this? Does he like producing unique NPCs for roleplaying situations? Is he mostly down to business, getting you into the Dungeon right away for some serious hack and slash, or did you like hanging out in towns and starting Bar Brawls with Marfeldt? What about the humourous elements that fill the Blackmoor books. Do these make their way into the games beyond place names etc?

Havard
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roberthebald:
Havard,
The answer to your question about David is rather complicated. The nature of the original Blackmoor changed over the years. I was not involved in the original good vs. evil phase for reasons I will explain later. Greg would be able to talk about that period of time. By the time I became heavily involved, there was a lot of adventuring generated by the players. David still generated events himself, and some adventures were responses to other adventures. David was definitely in control of any adventure or event where he was DM. He had plenty of ways to give hints, clues, or impart information (a passing villager, a visit to the elves, a messenger that delivered the news that started it all). But he gave a lot of latitude to adventurers (within the rules) as to how they wanted to do anything. Yes, he did give us all the rope we needed to hang ourselves with. As you can see, adventures varied widely, depending on the circumstances. I will provide some examples later of adventures I was on.

Something that has to be kept in mind, we are talking about a period of time that covers many years, and had many different players joining and leaving over that time. Adventures usually consisted of whomever happened to be available at the time. Like any game, Blackmoor expanded and evolved. David is probably the only person who knows everything that has happened there. This brings up another point. Greg and I have already discovered that we remember events differently. If I can have more of the old players posting here, there will inevitably be discrepances cropping up. You will have to make allowances for time and memories. This is not in any way an official history, and do not expect David to post here (though it is always a possibility). We will sort it out the best we can.
Bob

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gsvenson:
The humor was always in the game. We were playing to have fun. The rules were not codified yet so things couldn't be locked into the "rules" either. Still in the early games Dave pretty much let us do what we wanted and go where we wanted, as long as he had already detailed the area.

To Bob's point, Dave and I have compared our memories on some of the events in the original game, too, and we found that we disagreed on some of the details, as well.
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Here is another brief tale, I am sorry that I don't remember more of the details...

The Blue Rider

During the Fall of 1972, I had an adventure with Bill Heaton (William of the Heath), Mel Johnson (Mello) and, I think, Steve Rocheford, but I am not sure. I place it at that time because it was shortly after Dave Arneson had introduced Blackmoor to Gary Gygax and the group in Lake Geneva, leading to the creation of Greyhawk. I don't remember a lot of the details, we probably played from 1 PM to 4 AM that Saturday.

It was a dungeon dive deep into the dungeons of Castle Blackmoor. This trip was the deepest that we ever went. I had pretty much memorized the upper levels at this point and was able to lead us quickly and safely down to the nineth level.

As we wandered we stumbled across a staircase that led to a secret door which came out behind the throne of the king of the Orcs of the Blackhand, King Frederick the First. We decided that we were not a strong enough party to take on the Orcs at that time, but I marked the location in my memory for a later adventure (see the Orcs Bane story).

We found another stairs that led to the tenth level and went down. I don't remember much of what we found here. But soon we found a stairs to an eleventh level (to my knowledge this area was never published) and we went down.

The walls here were rougher and there was a dim red light through out the corridors. Soon we found ourselves on a ledge over looking a hugh cavern with a lake of lava at the bottom. In the center was an island covered with treasure. On top of the mound of treasure was a dragon (I think that it was golden, but the colors meant less at that time).

William wanted to jump down to the island. Svenny was opposed, mostly ss self preservation thing. I couldn't see how we would ever get off the island if we managed to get there. William jumped anyway and managed to land on the island. The rest of us stayed on the ledge and watched. Mello took some chalk and wrote "Kilroy was here" along with the famous sketch of the head peering over a wall on the wall of the ledge. The dragon posed a puzzle for William. I don't recall the details, but he solved it and was was rewarded with a blue suit of magic armor and mechanical horse. I have always thought of the armor as a dark metalic blue, but the description was just blue. The armor was more like powered battledress then a suit of plate armor, for Sic-Fi fans. William doned the armor and somehow was back with us on the ledge. We all traveled back out of the dungeon.

At this point Dave got busy with something else and asked me to take over as the DM, quickly briefing me on the armor. William and Mello then tried to figure out what the buttons on the left arm of the armor did. It was quite funny for those that were watching and quite frustrating for William as it led to the stories of him charging into battle screaming "No! No! Stop!" later. This is how William of the Heath became known as the Blue Rider.

[I edited this post to remove my discussion of DMing and to make a correction]
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Havard:
Keep these coming!

About differing memories: Something I learned when I was doing my MA in History is that people will always remember things differently, sometimes amazingly so. The historian's sollution is usually to let all "witnesses" speak, compare to facts etc etc. Since a big part of gaming is what goes on in each player's imagination, this must be doubly true for memories of games.

Still, I would love to hear all the different versions. They can in many ways account for equally true impressions of the Blackmoor games and can all provide inspiration for new generations of Blackmoorians Smile

Greg: I loved hearing about the Blue Rider! I read about this character in the FFC, but it is quite cool to hear it from another perspective Smile

Havard
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roberthebald:
I did not like Blackmoor when David first introduced it. The idea of going toe to toe with creatures much stronger than myself sounded insane to me, especially when you are out of the adventure when your one and only character was killed. Also,I had a very aggresive style of playing. Attacking a Troll with a first level character was a quick way to commit suicide, even when you had surprised the Troll. I soon decided that I would rather play other games. I re-entered Blackmoor because virtually all of the other guys were in it and kept encouraging me to try it again. By this time, they were starting to figure out how to handle magic and the various creatures encountered. Unfortunately for me, they were all advancing in levels, and were starting to accumulate some pretty cool equipment. My first level characters just couldn't survive the places they were going. David finally sat down with just me, and ran through several adventures more on my level, until I finally was surviving to the next levels and was able to start adventuring with the others.

The adventure that was my big breakthrough was with a fighting man for whom I rolled a decent set of characteristics. There were some woods east of Blackmoor that were unknown. Anyone who adventured into them just disappeared. Like David, I am a big fan of anything naval, and I knew that if I went through the woods I would reach the coast and could run into the Skandiharrians. David thougt I was crazy, but he could not talk me out of trying. My dice rolling was fantastically lucky, and I made it through the woods to the coast. I joined the Skandiharrians and went on several voyages with them. I became the captain of a ship by challenging the captain to a duel and defeating him with the help of a mysterious stranger ( I believe he was Kurt Krey). He was a magic user who wanted to go back to Blackmoor. This was possible by ship, and I agreed to take him. What he did not tell me was that he had been a central figure in an invasion and burning of Blackmoor in the past. In any event, the journey up the river back to Blackmoor was so hazardous that I lost most of the crew before reaching Blackmoor bay, and Gertie (the dragon in the bay) soon took care of the ship. The wizard managed to drag me to shore, along with a couple of the men. He then disappeared to where he really wanted to go. All of this adventuring was over a period of time of a couple of months, and Greg was actually the Gamemaster for the trip up the river. Once in Blackmoor town, and once again penniless, I then went to the only place guarantied to have treasure, the dungeon. Unfortunately, I don't remember much about what happened in the dungeon (it was relatively tame compared to my life as a Captain). I do remember that for some reason the other sailors did not want to follow me anywhere, and at least one became a NPC in the town.

Players were constantly wandering off to other places in the map, and David usually had something waitng for us wherever we went. Identifying Blackmoor as the game with the dungeon does not do it justice. A great deal of adventuring happened outside of blackmoor town, let alone the dungeon. I will talk about the big move to the border with the Great Kingdom another time.

_________________
Bob Meyer
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gsvenson:
That's cool, Bob. I vaguely remember my DMing and that it was primarily for you, Dave Megary and John and Richard Snider. That was probably because we were all roommates for a while. The funny thing is that I have absolutely no recollection of your adventure up the river!

I am sure that Bill Heaton would tell the story of how he became the Blue Rider totally differently, too. I suspect that he would remember many more of the details.

You are right about Blackmoor being much more than dungeon trips. That was where it started, but we quickly found many new places to explore...

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roberthebald:
Any feedback on the little we have said so far? Are you bored yet? What would you like for me to post next?I am contacting some of the others to see if they will also share with you. This could take a while.

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gsvenson:
I have been trying to remember any details I could of the original "Temple of the Frog" adventure, but so far all I have come up with was the endless sloshing through the swamps searching for the temple and Dave's using a large ceramic frog for the actual temple (a planter from his mother's garden, I think) when we setup the miniatures after we finally found it...
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Sheridan:
robertthebald wrote:
Any feedback on the little we have said so far?


I love it!

robertthebald wrote:
Are you bored yet?


Not at all!

robertthebald wrote:
What would you like for me to post next?


City of the Gods, Egg Of Coot, Dungeons of Glendower

robertthebald wrote:
I am contacting some of the others to see if they will also share with you.


Awesome!

robertthebald wrote:
This could take a while.


I will attempt to wait patiently!

As a Blackmoor-related side note, I am posting this message from UBCon, as I just finished running four new players through Episode 1: The Comeback Inn - they all enjoyed it!
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Rafael:
As Scott has said. Smile I really enjoy this and would like to hear more of it! Smile
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Roberthebald:
Thanks for the encouragement guys. I wish I could be more helpful with some of the specific requests (Glendower had a dungeon?). Blackmoor had so many things going on through its history, not to mention all of the different areas available.If you talked to two different people from the old campaign, you might wonder if they were talking about the same game. I have contacted some of the other players with rather mixed results so far. A couple of them did seem to be interested. I will keep trying.
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Havard:
Tell us more about your character! Smile

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Roberthebald:
Havard,
Just a quick post today. I have been on the phone, e-mailing, and talking to people in person all weekend. I just finished a phone conversation with a couple of them this morning. I am hopeful that we will have more contributions fairly soon. Have to go get some sleep now (I work nights). I will post a story soon on Robert the Bald, where he moved down south on the Outdoor Survival map. Trying to gather some more information first.
Thanks
Bob

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gsvenson:
Yes, Bob makes a good point. At some point (probably in 1975 give or take a year) Uther granted many of his loyal servants their own fiefs. Since the original Blackmoor area was already occupied, the new fiefs were created in the south. An area we called "province one". Dave simply placed the map from Avalon Hill's "Outdoor Survival" game next to the Blackmoor map and showed us which hex had our new fief in it. The area was roughly where the Eastern Hak is located on "modern" maps of Blackmoor. This would probably have been an area that had been secured from the Thonian Empire by the Kingdom of Blackmoor in the War for Blackmoor's Independence (that's speculation on my part as I don't really remember anymore). We then spent many gaming sessions exploring and securing our new Baronies and their surrounding areas. Newgate was originally located there. It was the first fief you came to as you traveled into the area from Blackmoor, so it was referred to as the gateway to the new region and its name bacame Newgate. Svenny was very active and systematic in searching the area surrounding Newgate to destroy all of the evil or dangerous creatures in the vacinity. Trying to make it a safe place...

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Havard:
The information you guys just shared is gold! I had no idea Dave used the Outdoor Survival Guilde map as a basis for the southern region. I know the official Blackmoor also uses the term 'new baronies' (or something) for the southern fiefdoms such as Robert the Bald's lands (Cloudtop Castle), Dragonia and the Dragonhills. I didn't think Newgate was included here.

I'd love to hear more about both of your fiefdoms. How did you imagine them? Why is Robert's land so far from the others? Is it because he is a reclusive wizard? Has he gone off exploring the nearby Valley of the Ancients?
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roberthebald:
In contacting and talking to the other original players, I am learning more about Blackmoor than I knew back when I was playing it. I have contacted, or can account for, about twenty of the people in the list of original players.At least one is a gold mine of information, but for various reasons can not post on any of these forums. I will have to drag him over to my house and do it from here. As it is now summer, and I have more than I care to think about to do outside, this may not happen for some time. I found an interesting pdf over at The Wayfarers Inn forum.
http://pages.sbcglobal.net/zimriel/Blackmoor/
I think it is worth looking at.
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Havard:
Thanks for the effort Bob! I am really looking forward to hearing more from you and your mysterious co-player!

The site from the link you provide is indeed great. David Ross did an excellent job there. For years that was my main source of information about Blackmoor, before I got ahold of the DA-series, the FFC and finally the ZGG stuff. Smile

I recommend everyone who hasn't already to go check it out.

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roberthebald:
Robert the Bald's origins are obscure. I stayed away from "politics" and the towns as much as possible: virtually all of my adventuring was outdoors. When the big move was made to the southern provinces, I was very much in my element. As I had the experience and desire, I was located in a particularly isolated and wild area. I raised my own small army of well trained cavalry, and soon cleared out and pacified my Barony. I continued my adventures and quickly went up in levels. When the others ran into problems, I would go help them out, and when a large force attempted to invade the area, I leant my army to Greg and the Sniders to help defeat it. I did indeed go the the Valley of the Ancients, but no longer remember the adventure, other than it was a disaster that decimated the players that went. I also had an adventure in the mountains nearby that I think had something to do with the Ancients, as the Sniders and I investigated some strange doings in some huge caverns we discovered and ran into some very strange things that could have come from the Valley. This was also disasterous, and I believe this was when the yellow mist ended up covering John's area. Personally, I not only survived these adventures, but I acquired enough interesting things to study that I ended up locked away in my tower studying them. This all proved to be my undoing, as I was the first of the original players (and one of only two I am aware of) to reach the highest possible level in David's rules. When I asked David what happened now, he told me that"The Gods welcome me". I lost Robert the Bald to David's control and had to start a new character. David has called me Duke (see the special acknowledgements page in the Adventures in Fantasy books); this probably dates from this time.

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gsvenson:
As I recall, Robert the Bald was the first character to reach the highest level Dave would allow. Richard Snider's character was also promoted out of play sometime shortly after that. I think that I was so horrified by the thought that I could lose Svenny that I stopped trying to gain experience. I might have been a bit too attached to my character...

I think that there were six new baronies on the outdoor survival map. Bob's, Richard Snider's, John Snider's and Svenny's Baronies, of course. I can't remember who had the other two new Baronies. It was most likely Dave Megarry and one of the Belfry brothers (Scott or Dave), but I am not sure anymore.

Newgate was originally further south and was placed further north with the ZG effort to define Blackmoor in a way that was compatable with the various other settings it has been tied to. The original Newgate was not nearly as well developed as the new Newgate has been. I wrote up some fairly extensive material on the Barony of Newgate for ZG a couple of years ago. I had hoped that it would be put out as a free PDF, but they had other plans for it. We will have to wait and see...

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DClingman:
gsvenson wrote:

I wrote up some fairly extensive material on the Barony of Newgate for ZG a couple of years ago. I had hoped that it would be put out as a free PDF, but they had other plans for it. We will have to wait and see...


We haven't forgotten about that Greg. Smile

Dustin
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Gsvenson:
Thanks, I am glad to hear it!

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Rafael:
inally got the chance to read the thread in detail.

Amazing, just amazign. Please keep the info coming! Smile

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roberthebald:
I know it has been a month since my last posting to this site. I was hoping that some of the other people I contacted would be able to come in and post their own stories. Unfortunately, some of them have had difficulty registering here. This is not just the site, but an almost total unfamiliarity with forums in general. They have all talked about their lack of time for this, and their lack of memory. I found it interesting in talking to them, that they each had their own little fragment of the story. If I had the time and resources I could piece together quite a bit of what happened. I have a vacation coming up in November when I hope to be able to devote more time to this. In the meantime, I have become involved in posting to The Wayfarers Inn (http://wayfarer.myfreeforum.org/). Greg also posts there, and Richard Snider has his own thread there. I will not abandon this, it will just take a while for me to continue on this.
One of my projects for November will be posting the Wizard of the Woods story here. I asked him how he got the name. He said that the small woods just outside of Blackmoor town looked like a logical place for a wizard to locate himself. So that is what he did, hence the name. By the way, this wood on the tabletop had some model trees that had some apples(?) in them. These kept falling off, and Peter(or someone) decided to use them in the game. They become magic berries that were used in many ways. Funny how things in the game came from the most mundane things.
Thank you for your patience.
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Havard:
Too bad there won't be more people joining you guys. Anyway, I enjoyed hearing about the Wizard of the Woods. I always assumed this was a specific title. One that perhaps came with some special powers as well. Such as that sylvan creatures would show him obedience etc. I am considering doing something like that IMC. Smile

I'll also pick up the idea about the magic berries. Perhaps the Wizard of the Woods manufactures such berries...

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Gsvenson:
I am sorry that I have neglected this for so long. I guess I have been busy, between a business trip to Tempe, AZ for a week (I don't travel well anymore) and the stuff at Dragonsfoot, I have been a bit preoccupied.

My recollection is that the Glendower dungeon was pretty small. It took only one adventure to clean it out. But during the same adventure (or perhaps the next one, which we played on the same day-we usually started at about 1 pm often went until 3 or 4 am) we discovered a dragon temple south of the city that led to the legend of the flying monk, Brother Richard, who was played by Richard Snider. Richard is also the author of Avalon Hill's "Power and Perils" game and co-author of Adventure Games' "Adventures in Fantasy" game, if I remember correctly - memory is a terrible thing to lose...


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-Havard

You got mail,

and I want some opinions!

Merry Christmas,

R

http://dablackmoor.wikidot.com/start

Anyone have any idea who set this up?

Havard

Havard:
What do you all do with elves in your campaigns? Looking at the figures, it looks like the Westryn vastly outnumber the Cumasti. Chances are, its more likely to meet the Westryn, even if they are a reclusive bunch.

How dark do you make them? The Cumasti remind me of Tolkien's lot haning out at Rivendell. I always saw Ringlo as similar to Rivendell anyway.

Thoughts?

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TheWonderingBard:
Well from what I've seen thus far. Yes the Cumasti are VERY much like the Rivendell Elves, but the Wystren remind Me not of even thier cousins. I think of them more like Celtic Hunters of old myth and legend.
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bgilkison:
If you want to continue the Tolkien comparison, IMHO, I'd place the Westryn mentality in the same camp as the wood-elves, i.e. the Elves of Mirkwood (Thranduil and his kin). At least from their portrayal in The Hobbit, they seemed even more xenophobic than some of the other elven groups remaining in Middle-Earth...
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Havard:
Interestin idea. My only problem with it is that the Mirwood elves seem a little silly as they are described in the Hobbit....

Celtic Hunter types as The Wondering Bard suggests seems closer to what I am looking for. Probably a fairly dark version of those even...

Havard
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Falconer:
The Wood-elves of The Hobbit aren’t silly. The Rivendell Elves are.

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-Havard

Havard:


Falconer wrote:
havard wrote:
But most of all, what we have all been waiting for decades to see:
DA5: City of Blackmoor
Yes, seriously, eagerly, earnestly, desperately needed.


I would definitely love to see this book.

I would also like to see a Dwarven race book come out because it seems that there's a lot about them that's left out. Ok, so I'd like to see an individual race book that details things more than the core book.

Also, an expanded book that contains equal (or pseudo equal) parts of the baddies of Blackmoor. This could contain all the enemies, their realms, and their goals! But if you'd like to give us a more in depth look at each aggressor/enemy separate source books are fine with me. Even though my pocket book will hate me!

One question I did want to ask: Will you still be putting out some 3.5 material even when 4th edition is on the market?

Regardless, I'm looking forward to see what comes out in the future! I feel like my want list is going to expand further, in the near future!

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Rafael:
While I am pretty sure that either Gary Gygax or Dave Arneson *are* the Egg, the WL box, detailing the prehistory of JG's Wilderlands aka OD&D's Known World, gives the planet a name, details it's solar system, and tells A LOT about it's creators.

Should be no problem to find a good explanation of the egg with that material...

Really, the WL box was THE gaming product of the last years (except the BM books, of course) and I wouldn't miss the opportunity to get it - thw whole JG stuff fits perfectly into the old FFC concept. Smile But, OTOH, the box was so darn expensive...
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Havard:
The more I'm thinking about this the more I am beginning to see the Egg as a potential problem for a future campaign. The Egg is so close to Blackmoor geographically, and the players are bound to catch an interest, especially since Uther forbids people to go there. Also, there is a limit to how many times I can use the situation where the PCs journey towards the land of the Egg, then wake up a month later at a random location without remembering what happened in the land of the Egg. The entire setting invites to a confrontation with the Egg, and I have problems seeing how to avoid that for too long a time.

Suggestions?
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Rafael:
Yeah, the Egg will be fried soon enough...

Still, I personally would like to see an official approach on this - Blackmoor without the Egg, that is a bit like Dragonlance without dragons, if you know what I mean...

IMC, the Egg will linger around a while longer, maybe until the 1070s, and then be heroically overthrown by, as always in BM's history, a bunch of brave adventurers... Smile
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LordTarrant:
In my campaign I plan on having The Egg an alien that was captured on another planet by the crew of spaceship itself. When the ship crash landed on the surface of the world (which may have been caused by The Egg) it escaped and traveled to the Island of Coot where it currently resides feeding on the very magical rich energies found in the north. I've also decided to have The Egg so full of magical energy that to destroy it would cause a flood of magical energy to lash, out killing anyone practicing magic at that moment (i.e. casting a spell) and even more chilling is any creature that uses magic naturally (i.e. Sorcerers) if caught within the magical backlash could be killed outright. Not to mention any long term effects such a backlash would have sort of like radiation from a nuclear explosion. So my players, of which one is a sorceress, will have a dilemma to face.

_________________
Live by the code, Die by the code
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Gsvenson:
I like your plan. I hope that you and your group have a great time playing it out!
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LordTarrant:
Thank you, I'll let you know how it comes out.

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Sheridan:
My take on the Egg, involving other RPG products throughout history...
http://www.pandius.com/wrldmi2.html
Hope you like it!
-Scott
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Gsvenson:
A very interesting set of possibilities, thanks Scott!
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-Havard

Sheridan:
Since we know a good number of upcoming Blackmoor products (Temple of the Frog, City of the Gods, Peshwah, Clockwork and Steam, Dutchy of Ten, GM's Guide), I was wondering what OTHER areas of Blackmoor would you like to see developed for d20 in the future?
My votes:
- Dungeons of Glendower
- Skandaharian culture
- The Realm of the Egg
- More Blackmoor PCs/NPCs (including those omitted from the campaign setting)
- World War (I'd love to see a Blackmoor vs. Orcs/Egg/Skandaharian/Afridhi/Ran Of Ah Foo military campaign like the old Desert Nomads X10 D&D module)
Any other thoughts?
-Scott Moore
*Sheridan
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Havard:
reat topic Scott!

Sheridan wrote:

- Dungeons of Glendower


Definately an interesting location that could be developed further. I don't think it should get an entire product devoted to it ala DoCB though, but could perhaps be detailed in a "Baronies of Blackmoor" style book?

Quote:
- Skandaharian culture


I'd love to see this one!

Quote:
- The Realm of the Egg


This would absolutely be interesting. If they make a book like that, I hope they will be able to maintain the mystery of the Egg, while still giving us loads of adventuring possibilities.

Quote:
- More Blackmoor PCs/NPCs (including those omitted from the campaign setting)


Absolutely. I'm hoping to see more of those in the Blackmoor DMG next year. Others could be included in virtually any product I suppose.

I'd also love to see NPCs that were only mentioned by names in older products in addition to those who were fully fledged NPCs, but just havent been converted yet.

Quote:
- World War (I'd love to see a Blackmoor vs. Orcs/Egg/Skandaharian/Afridhi/Ran Of Ah Foo military campaign like the old Desert Nomads X10 D&D module)


YES! That would be very nice! I'd imagine it would be an even more grim tale than X10 was...

I'd also like to see:
* The Afridhi Sourcebook "The Hordes of the Afridhi"
* The Thonia Sourcebook "The Fallen Republic of Thonia"
* The Frisia Sourcebook "Merchants of Frisia"
* The Duchy of the Peaks Sourcebook "Realm of Temptations"
* The Valemen Sourcebook "Lands by the Goblin Kush"
* Regent of the Mines/Dwarf Sourcebook "Mines of the Dwarven Regent"
* Cumasti/Westryn Sourcebook
* Gnome/Halfling/Docrae Sourcebook: "From Boggy Bottoms to Booh and Back Again"
* Monster Book: "Beasts of Blackmoor" (Preferably featuring not just monsters, but organizations, villains etc ala the D20 Modern Menace Manual.

But most of all, what we have all been waiting for decades to see:
DA5: City of Blackmoor

Havard

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Sheridan:
avard wrote:

* The Valemen Sourcebook "Lands by the Goblin Kush"
* Regent of the Mines/Dwarf Sourcebook "Mines of the Dwarven Regent"

Those would be intesting as well!
havard wrote:

* Gnome/Halfling/Docrae Sourcebook: "From Boggy Bottoms to Booh and Back Again"

OK, I'll go with that just because your title amuses me !
havard wrote:

* Monster Book: "Beasts of Blackmoor" (Preferably featuring not just monsters, but organizations, villains etc ala the D20 Modern Menace Manual.

You saved this one for me with you note - I definately don't want another monster book, but some monsters with a bunch of secret societies and villianous forces (an Afridhi chapter, a Skandharian chapter, etc. - each with plot hooks and/or a mini adventure).
havard wrote:

But most of all, what we have all been waiting for decades to see:
DA5: City of Blackmoor

I though about this right after I posted originally. Definately on my top list, too.
-Scott Moore
*Sheridan

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Spikey:
Clockwork and steampunk craziness. But that's what I always want.
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Rafael:
Really, a BM city book would be of great use.

Plus, A book detailing really ALL the locations in the North, would really be nice... (Starport, Marban, the Skandaharian Lands.)
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Havard:

TheAndoman wrote:
After planning to run the adventure episode in The Wizard's Cabal book, I ran into something I'd love to have fixed. There are NO maps in the Blackmoor products aside from the main landmass map in the campaign setting book. I'm having a hell of a time finding a map of Vestfold.

I highly recommend an Atlas.


I thought there was supposed to be a fold out map in the Softcover Blackmoor sourcebook. I still havent been able to find that one though, so I can't confirm it. Possibly it was the hexed one that the recent Newsletters use in their logo. Vestfold isn't mapped anywhere AFAIK, though the FFC has a map of Blackmoor town.

I agree that an Atlas would be nice though Smile

Havard
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DClingman:
The Softcover campaign book has a pull out map in the back. This map is also in the PDF version.
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Falconer:
havard wrote:
But most of all, what we have all been waiting for decades to see:
DA5: City of Blackmoor
Yes, seriously, eagerly, earnestly, desperately needed.

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Someone:


Falconer wrote:
havard wrote:
But most of all, what we have all been waiting for decades to see:
DA5: City of Blackmoor
Yes, seriously, eagerly, earnestly, desperately needed.


I would definitely love to see this book.

I would also like to see a Dwarven race book come out because it seems that there's a lot about them that's left out. Ok, so I'd like to see an individual race book that details things more than the core book.

Also, an expanded book that contains equal (or pseudo equal) parts of the baddies of Blackmoor. This could contain all the enemies, their realms, and their goals! But if you'd like to give us a more in depth look at each aggressor/enemy separate source books are fine with me. Even though my pocket book will hate me!

One question I did want to ask: Will you still be putting out some 3.5 material even when 4th edition is on the market?

Regardless, I'm looking forward to see what comes out in the future! I feel like my want list is going to expand further, in the near future!
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Sheridan:
he following was just posted on Wizards of the Coast's web site under stuff coming up for February:

"On the DM side of things [on our website], you'll also find a new scenario added to the downloadable adventures . . . a revision of an old sci-fi module. There are no Barrier Peaks involved this time, but there are plenty of . . . frogs. And cyborgs. And strange temples to explore."

Shocked Confused

I don't know what else they could be referring to besides Temple of the Frog, but it seems weird that they would revamp and re-release an older module when they've already licensed it to Zeitgeist, who is supposed to be releasing their own updated print copy any time now. Anybody have any further insight on this?

The full article is here:
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20070208a
Look under February and Website.

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Havard:
Well, the other sci fi module I can think of is Tales of the Comet. Still, the presence of Frogs does suggest that we are talking about the Temple of the Frog.

Weird. Maybe a Greyhawk take on the Temple?

Maybe it can be used as a supplement to the ZGG module when it comes out? It should be out any day now, eh?

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lkj:
Update: Wizard's posted their Temple of the Frog:

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/oa/20070223a

HOWEVER, it's RETURN to the temple of the frog. The adventure apparently picks up decades after the original. So, looks like there isn't an overlap after all.

AD
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Rafael:
Confused While I welcome any freeby by the D&D company, I must confess that this module seems very lame to me. Yet, maybe one can build something on it some day.

I for my part will run the original first. Smile
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Havard:

Thats great! For a free module this is good enough. I expect the ZGG version to be better, but as you say, since it is a RETURN to kind of module, they don't really overlap.

Maybe ZGG can use this to their advantage somehow?

I like how we are given a few more hints about what happens to the Temple and St Stephen in the aftermath of the two first modules...

Havard
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HarleyStroh:
No worries. Smile The ZG version of the Temple dwarfs the latest Wizards installment. But it is fun to read them both, see where they are similar, and where they are radically different.
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Havard:
Well, that is cool then! The more Blackmoor stuff we can get the better. I enjoyed the WotC version, but I am really looking forward to seeing the Real Thing Smile

By the way, I like the idea of a Return to module and seeing what happens after the destruction of the temple. I dont know about St. Stephen turning into a Vampire though, it just seems unneccesary, but I like the idea of him returning to the Temple to pick up the pieces and turning that into an adventure as well.

My own campaign is getting gradually more heavily involved with the Order of the Frog now, and its only a matter of time untill they find their way to the Temple. I plan on having St. Stephen flee and team up with the Afridhi along with the Ran of Ah Foo. They should have enough challenges for a while I guess Smile

Havard
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I like the images in these galleries:

http://abi23.republika.pl/portfolio.html

Havard

http://mmrpg.zeitgeistgames.com/index.p ... opic&t=522

Havard:
What R/W culturally analogies do people associate with the Afridhi? I have no problems visualizing their ethinic appearance, but what about clothes, armor and weapons? I need something to use as inspiration here...

Persians?


How about this? (From the Prince of Persia games):





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Raskal:
I see the Afridhis like some some indous or muslims etnnies like Pathans or Afghans but with read hair.
Another way is to see them as persian of antiquity

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Havard:
Okay, cool
sounds like we have some similar ideas about them then. What about in terms of weapons? I don't have the D20 sourcebook around right now so I can't check what they are listed with. For ancient Persians, I suppose Large shields and short spears would be appropriate.

Would we go as far as having them on War Chariots as well? IIRC they have recently adopted horsemanship from the Peshwa. Scimitars would probably be appropriate too, eh? What about missile weapons?

And beasts/pets other than horses? Hellhounds?
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Raskal:
The officials models of Afridhi use longbow
For beasts, i like the ideas of mounted war tigers with hell hounds running at their side
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Rafael:
Hi Raskal! Good to see you back!

Boah, Havard, that pic really scared me! Smile But it fits for your idea, I think!
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Shane:
If the Afridhi are associated with the Goblin Kush, then it makes sense for their main Real World influence (language, weapons, armor, and culture) to be the Pashtuns/Afghans, who live in the Hindu Kush mountains.
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-Havard

Raskal:
I have not find any information about the extreme south east in the North map, the zone crossed by the Greenway at the south of Pug's Station and east of the Taff River.
This region is part of Blackmoor kingdom ? Thonia Empire ? Peshwah ? Others ?

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Havard:
My guess is the plains region (Eastern Hak) is dominated by various Peshwah tribes. Although not shown on the D20 line maps, the City of Marban should appear somewhere behind the "The North" logo. Marban is a Thonian city and I imagine everything south of that is Thonia.
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Raskal:
I have scheduled to masterize "The Six Spheres of Zaihhess" (Necromancer Games), so i need a wild area, Frontier like, with isolated villages.
This region seems ok for that. The villages can be populated by Thonia Empire colonists, a little isolated and surronded by Peshwah tribes.

The information about Marban is linked to your Blackmoor in Mystara setting ?
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Havard:
I don't know "The Six Spheres of Zaihhess" beyond what you describe here, but it sounesd like it should work. Another alternative would be using areas along the western side of the map.

IIRC Marban is mentioned in one of the DA modules, but otherwise not linked to Blackmoor in Mystara.
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DClingman:
By TSR canon, the southern border belongs to the Thonian Empire. By Dave Arneson's version it's something slightly different. I hate to tease, but I can't disclose that right now. More will be made available in the coming months. Smile
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Raskal_
Ok, i can wait some month...but not to long Wink
I hope that Dustin will release a setting book for the (mad & evil) world around Blackmoor

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Rafael_
Will the upcoming BM DMG contain material covering the outskirts of Blackmoor? What about Rhun, that legendary country Marfeldt looted, for example? - I can see me introducing that one into my games. Smile
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Raskal:
Rhûn is a land at the east of Mordor. I suppose you are speaking of another land ?
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Rafael_



Joined: Jun 15, 2005
Posts: 2209
Location: Würzburg, Germany

No, I am referring to the land mentioned in the First Fantasy Campaign's description of Marfeldt's past. There,Rhun is mentioned as a place where MArfeldt first came to fame. (pg. 15) It's generally taken for granted that this Rhun is equal to the one described by Tolkien, BUT after all, it's one of the few moments where the world around BM is described. (If we let all later TSR tie-ins to Mystara aside.)
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Raskal:
I am a little confused by this book. There is a lot of reference to the Great Kindgom (Marfeldt was responsible of the divisions of this kingdom, p20). This is the same Great Kingdom than in Greyhawk ?
Yes, page 21 in my edition, there is a short Biography on the barbarian : The Archives of Rhun.

In your setting, Blackmoor is linked to the Known World of Judge Guild ?
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Rafael_
Basically, since I understand that Blackmoor, Greyhawk, Myrlind's Dungeon and all the other first-hour D&D settings were extremely focused on their main dungeons, it was fairly easy to link them with a very generic overall setting. Actually, from the first hour of D&D, no details are known about the details of the Great Kingdom (that I could remember). So, in short, it's not Greyhawk's Great Kingdom, but maybe a very similar place. I personally think of doing some kind of crossover with Blackmoor and the Great Kingdom as described in *Ivid the Undying*.

IMC, I indeed take the existence of the Wilderlands as granted. I set them on some unspecified place southwards. Mostly, I use them as background for some more fleshed-out stories and as additional option for characters. If you don't have already, get the PG to the Wilderlands as soon as you can. For me, it's almost THE definite d20 product when it comes to incorporate new material into a BM game. Smile
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Havard:
Here is my take on this stuff:

Blackmoor is set in Mystara's ancient past, ca 6000 years before the Known World (gazetteer era).

The Great Kingdom may have similarities to Greyhawk's Great Kingdom, but I envision it as more Conan-esque with decadent rulers, slave girls, camels etc. Something like Gomorra in the movie Scorpion King. Most Thonians IMC have been given slavic names inspired by Taha Marcovic, but I'm thinking I should make them more middle eastern or byzantine in the future.

I have found a location for Blackmoor's Rhun, which will be revealed soon... Cool

The Wilderlands also exist IMC to the southwest. I'm not sure it will have a great impact on my campaign at all, but I agree that the PG is an excellent book. Its style has influenced the way I present Blackmoor even if the PCs will never travel to those lands.

Havard
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-Havard