http://wayfarer.myfreeforum.org/viewtop ... f=40&t=232

robertsconley:
Found a scan of the Outdoor survival map at

http://www.enworld.org/attachment.php?a ... ntid=29403

So where did you old-timers enter the map in at? And who owned what?





Enjoy
Rob Conley

**************************
Robertsconley:

looked at the rules here

http://www.gameroom.com/gamebits/RULES/ ... Rules.html

The represents 13,200 sq miles. The best figure I get for the hexes is 3 miles per hex.

Rob Conley

*******************

Gsvenson:

I have not seen it in over 30 years. Right now, I don't remember. Give me a little time and I may remember.

*****************
Havard:

Interestingly, this map actually reveals some areas in the south that were not even detailed in the DA series, and certainly the map details a large portion not featured on the ZGG or FFC maps...

*******************

Rafael:
Ready to make a map for Thonia out of it?

Lately, I have become very interested in the Thonian Rand, depicted on the Maps in DA4. I'll check how the maps fit together...
**************************

Robertsconley:
I don't much in the way of access to Thonia material. If people are interested, I can squeeze in the time to make a wilderlands style map out of the scan with the substitutions suggested by the original white box rules (I have a copy).

Rob Conley

************************

Robertsconley:
Here is a preliminary result. I need to do some more proofing and clean up but you can see the basics.

I decided to christen it Southland the original outdoor map.

The diamond are lairs
The square are towns
The circles are castles/keeps

Enjoy
Rob Conley

http://home.earthlink.net/~wilderlands/southlandsm.jpg




**************************

Rafael:

Wow, Rob, that looks awesome! :-D

What about developing this map a bit further? - As I keep looking at it, thousands of ideas for cities, cottages and dungeons flood into my mind!

Rob, would you be interested in such a project? - We could do a WL Box-like chapter for The Southlands as well. If everyone details, say, 5 to 10 hexes,
that will be enough to fill some pages. Nothing big or profitable at all, but maybe enough for a PDF module?

I've been thinking for a while where this "Wayfarer's Inn" - which is not identical with the one in the CSIO - could be located. Maybe we can set it there?

We also have Mr Bledsaw's permission to use artwork from the classical modules, so this could become very cool if this works out.

Sorry to assault you like this with my spontaneous ideas... :oops:

*************************

Robertsconley:

Rafael wrote:
Wow, Rob, that looks awesome! :-D
Rob, would you be interested in such a project? - We could do a WL Box-like chapter for The Southlands as well. If everyone details, say, 5 to 10 hexes,
that will be enough to fill some pages. Nothing big or profitable at all, but maybe enough for a PDF module?


First of all I am interested in developing southland. However I my priority is to get some stuff done for Goodman and Judges Guild first. So I am not really free until the middle of July.

With that being said, I have a bunch of random thoughts on the subjects

Make not just one but three products, OSRIC, Castles and Castles, and D20. Each similar but each taking advantage of their respective systems. It would be a little more work in the short term but make Southlands more popular.

It need to change it to 5 miles per hex, I re-read book 3 and it is 5 miles per hex.

There is a small section in First Fantasy Campaign about what happened in southland, don't copy it directly but play homage to it in our background.

Generate stuff semi random method based on the Book 3 method. Adapt Book 3's wilderness encounter chart. This will result in a more limited selection of monster but it seems to me the point of the exercise is to make Southland with the feel of the original time. I feel that means using the original monster selection (all the ones that are OGL anyway).

Background ground suggestions

The castle in the middle of the swamps is the main fortress of the 'bad guys'. I dub it Molgor and it is home of the Twin Overlord, two undead necromancers of great power.

The town in 1917 is Bulwark and is located in the 5 mile wide Dead Orc Pass. It protects the lands of weal to the northeast from the lands of woe to the southwest.

2308 is the home of the Khinzu Dwarves the main stronghold of the dwarven race. Two mighty citadel (one north and one south) protect the entrance to their mighty realm.

That are my thoughts for now. I will post more later. Suggestions welcomed of course.

Back to slaving on the Dark Tower!

Enjoy
Rob Conley


******************************

Rafael:
I had made this up so far:

1922 The Wayfarer's Inn

3904 Halfling Cattle Ranch

3209 Haunted Ferry Station

0607 Abandoned Dragon's Lair

1014 KEEP: Monastic Order of Wotan (Odin); DUNGEON: Moor Graveyard of the Monks - Haunted

1132 Troll Family - living under the remains of an old bridge

0317 Abandoned Hill Dwarf settlement - supposedly haunted

0205 Viking Grave in the earth - marked with the fallen soldier's sword

0129 Lair of a giant Boar

0816 Meeting with a hunting party of elves


Further on, I would add the following locations:

The Owlwood - The forest north of the Wayfarer's Inn

The Stonekeep - An abandoned fortress in the eastern mountains; 5-lvl dungeon

Foxgrove Hill - a Gnomish village whose workers are specialized in steam technology and firearms


I can detail all of these places to a great extend; it's part of a new home setting I am developing.


¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨

Sounds good and like an intelligent move to me! If you accepted me contributions on this, I would be delighted!

(I had placed my locations on the map this morning already, before I saw your later post, but had been a bit shy to post it. )

¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨


Further on, I think the idea with the twin liches is excellent! What about making them two-headed lich, sort of like Xaene, who dwells under Rauxes/World of Greyhawk?

- In general, I had thought of this place to lie somewhere between Valley of the Ancients (WL), the Kingdom of Karak, and the Thonian Rand (DA4), a rather peaceful land, a bit like the realms of the Arcadian Baroque and Enlightenment lyrics. (So, the Gnomes of Foxgrove Hill could be shepherds, for example.)

¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨


Discussed the map and its possibility yesterday with a friend, and now it's pretty sure that SOMETHING will spawn out of it...

¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨

*************************

Havard:
sat down and tried to combine the Southlands with my Blackmoor map. My assumtion was that the big valley in the middle of the map was the Valley of the Ancients, so it effect it is mostly the southern part of the map that is being used. I'd also like to make use of some of the locations you guys have presented in this thread if you wouldnt mind.

If anyone is interested I can post the map here later tonite.

Havard
*****************

Havard:

Sorry it took me so long, but I had some trouble getting it to look right. There are still a few things that need to be fixed, a couple of typos etc, but I wanted to let you guys get a look at what Ive been up to. I have shamelessly stolen ideas from your Southlands project, but clearly I am taking it in a slightly different direction. Hope you guys dont mind:

http://blackmoor.mystara.us/forums/viewtopic.php?t=270

**********************


Rafael:
:-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D

That is so freaking cool, man!!!

Can't really express what happened to me when I saw the map!!!

Danced through my room like a Dropkick Murphys groupy!

Thank you so much!!!

**************************

Havard:
No problem! Your reaction alone makes it worth the effort

Things that will be fixed:
* Typo in Khinzu mountains
* All black text blocks will get a white outline to make them easier to read.
* Molgor Swamp added in white
* Owl River needs a few side branches to make it look right in the Valley of the Ancients
* I'm considering adding texture to vastelands and mountainous regions. Possibly others as well (but its tedious work).
* Possibly adding some darker green base under the Marban Woods.
* Possibly replace Kingsgrave with more Frisian name
* Possibly replace or add locations in the lands of Hak with info from the DAB sourcebook (it was confusing though!)

The map is a Wayfarer's Inn exclusive for now.

By the way, I am also working on a technique to add hexes to these maps while keeping the "artsy" style that I have developed. Not sure if it will be an improvement, but some people really like hexes.

***************************

Rafael:
:-D If you like, I can send you some more materials a friend and I have developed for the Southlands! Gotta consult that buddy, but think it would work out!

******************************

Havard:

That would be great
Note that I am basing this on the following assumptions:
* I attached the lower half of the Southlands map to Dave Arneson's map as the northern half already partially mesh with the Blackmoor map.
* The Valley of the Ancients needed to be extended so that it will connect with the Wilderlands in the SouthEast.
* The lands north and west of the Wilderlands (south of Hak) is where I inserted most of Rob's ideas about the castle in the middle of the swamp. I also used your name of the Owlwoods there.
* The lands south of the Valley of the Ancients is the Thonian Province of Borno, ruled by the Marcovic family. Since not much is known about this area, we are quite free to develop it as we like. I think the Borno name is taken from Brno in the Czech republic (has a nice castle) and the Marcovic name sounds Serb/Croat to me. I inserted Rob's town of Bulwark here and the Dead Orc Woods along with some of your ideas. Im considering changing the Dead Orc Woods into something else since Orcs dont exist yet IMC, but Dead Beastman Wood doesn't sound quite good either.

Note to Rob: Just to make it clear: In case you dont like my blatant stealing of your ideas into my own project here, let me know and I will change them. I think the names are awesome, but I would have no problem respecting it if you would reserve them for your own take on the area.

Havard
************************

Apercu:
Nice work Havard.

*******************

Havard:
Thanks

****************

-Havard

http://wayfarer.myfreeforum.org/viewtop ... f=40&t=282

Apercu:
Did I see Dave's name on the guest list this year at Gencon? Thought I read that he was doing a seminar on the early days of Blackmoor too. The reason I ask is it looks like I am actually going this year, for the first time. This is at the top of my list of reasons why. I didn't sign up for gencon ahead of time, so I can't reserve a spot at Dave's presentation, but I plan to be there if I can get a seat.



***************

Gsvenson:

I talked to Dave on Sunday evening and he said that he IS planning to be at Gencon. He indicated that he was giving a presentation and participating in several panel discussions in addition to hanging out at the ZGG booth. He even suggested that he might put together an unscheduled Blackmoor adventure for a select group of players (I assume that the adventure is for the MMRPG, but I didn't ask).

*****************************

Apercu:
Excellent. Still getting the plane tickets situated, got a place to stay and it's looking like I'll be going. I'll know for sure within the next day. Dave's presentation is one of the reasons I want to go. Hope it doesn't sell out before I get my Gencon ticket. Since I snoozed on pre reg, I won't be able to get that til the 15th.

*********************
Apercu:
Met Dave tonight and picked up copies of Blackmoor and the Dungeons of Blackmoor. What a nice guy. Glad he's here and hope he gets to feeling better in the days to come. It was nice to see others come over and offer their appreciation for Dave and his work. He was nice enough autograph the First Fantasy Campaign book and said my copy was nicer than the one he's got. Looking forward to the seminar tomorrow.

*******************

Gsvenson:

I am glad that it worked out for you! Dave and I have been friends for nearly 40 years now and I have always found him to be a humble and generous man.

*************************
Apercu:


As I mentioned above, I got to meet Dave. I could tell he wasn't really feeling well, but he wanted to be there. He asked that I take no pictures, and I respected his wishes. He recently had foot surgery, and he wasn't happy with being in a wheel chair. I wouldn't be either. I got him to sign my First Fantasy Campaign book and talked briefly with him about how cool it must have been to be a part of that group in those days.

Dave wasn't feeling well the morning of the Blackmoor Memories seminar, and so they sent Dave Kenzer of Kenzer Co. Although I am a fan of Kenzer and the Knights of the Dinner Table comic, I'd rather have heard about Blackmoor. I'm guessing Dustin must have been busy too. Kenzer knew nothing of Blackmoor, but nobody seemed to mind.

If there is a next time for this seminar:

1-I hope that somebody who knows Blackmoor could be a part of the thing as a co host to assist Dave or take over if Dave isn't feeling well. I think Blackmoor deserves the same respect as any of the other settings. It is the one that started it all.

2-The Blackmoor community needs to get the word out if a seminar is planned next year. I'm sure more people would have attended had they known about it.

I saw Dave later at a Gencon history seminar, and he had a few stories to tell about the early days of the con. I stopped in to the booth one more time on Sunday and wished him my best. It couldn't have been that fun for him to be there when he probably would have been more comfortable resting at home, but he wanted to be there for his fans. I hope he knows there are a lot of people out there who appreciate what he did for Role Playing Games.

I finally picked up the new Blackmoor and Dungeons of Blackmoor books. I'm currently not playing D&D 3.5, but I like reading about this setting.

By the way, 4th Edition was announced at Gencon. Dave and Dustin have said that this will not effect Blackmoor. It will continue.

*******************


-Havard

http://wayfarer.myfreeforum.org/viewtop ... f=40&t=291

Havard:
What do people think of taking out the science fiction elements of Blackmoor and replacing them with Eberon style "magic used in a way resembling technology"?

I'm thinking Warforged and replacing the aliens in the Valley of the Ancients with Outer Planar technomages.

Thoughts?

Havard

********************************

Tarlyn:

In all honesty I am playing Eberron right now on tabletop and I am so-so
on this setting. I prefer Forgotten Realms or my most fave fave fave Ravenloft!!!! As for Blackmoor I never heard of it before I began talking with Rafael. Havard I did tell G Svenson about my background pretty much in pm message though LOL! That being said Warforges are the last class I'd play, but that is my opinion. I like a more challenging pc in general. Warforged are predictable like Barbarians(I do like them cuz they're not civilised hee hee) I don't know about the Aliens you are talking about though, sorry

Steve

*******************

-Havard

Rafael:
Hi all,

Quick question: Is there any material about vampires in the North, apart from the story around Baron Fang?

I wondered if there would be any vampire clans, and so on. (Working on a new adventure right now, could be of importance.)

Yours,

Rafael

******************

Havard:

Clans does sound a bit White Wolf-ish, but the question is interesting. There certainly could be some sort of network between the vampires of the North. I could definatelty see the Duchy of the Peaks as being home to numerous such beings. The human sacrifice type activities of the Skandahar could also be attributed by the influence of a few northernly vamps. It would be interesting to look up the origins of Baron Fang though to see if that could be used to detail the Blackmoorian vamps further.

Classic D&D also has a Vampire-like creature called Vellya which would be ideal for the Dismal Swamp...

***********************

Rafael:

The timeline by David Ross says the following about Fant:

[quote]995
Ra-All is “promoted to [Earl] of Vestfoldâ€

From the Vampire thread:

Rafael Wrote:The timeline by David Ross says the following about Fant:

Quote: Spring Invasion begins in earnest. Glendower, Wizard of Wood (with Pixie allies), Dwarves of the Mines are first to support Earl of Vestfold. ...

http://wayfarer.myfreeforum.org/viewtop ... f=40&t=284

Apercu:

Normally, I'm pursuing missing items for my Basic D&D collection when I bid, but I had to get this one. This is a 1977 Edition of the First Fantasy Campaign book with the maps and everything. Had somebody nearly grab it from me today, but I won it. If I can get it here in time, I plan on asking Dave if he'll autograph it. Either way, I'm pretty happy to have this in my collection.

*************************

Rafael:

Congratulations!!!

Now that you might already have flipped through it, what do you think of it?

************************

Apercu:

I come to the Blackmoor campaign late. Years ago, when I was really into D&D, I played Basic D&D (Moldvay, then Mentzer). Dave's name was on the book, but I sort of was under the impression that Gary was the man who started it. It was many years later, within the last four or five, that I began to learn more of who Dave was and what he really did for the rpg.

I say this not to spark debates, but to explain where I'm coming from here. This is not to disrespect anybody. I do have an appreciation for Gary's work, and he certainly is well respected in the community.

I knew of Blackmoor, but I never ventured very far into AD&D. I prefer Basic. But, I've read with great interest stories from the old days. I've observed the community. One of the local game store owners mentioned that he sponsored Dave to get him to a local con a few years back, and he speaks with respect of him. In my research, I've come to the realization that there wouldn't be the big rpg effort, or it would be much different, if not for Dave.

Therefore, I wanted to know more. I noticed Dave was a guest at Gencon, and I decided I wanted to go and listen to his presentation. I want to learn more about the early days. I hope I can get in as I will be getting my badge the Wednesday before Gencon gets started.

But you asked about the book, and here I am rambling on.

Once I won the bit, I had to get it asap, so I went priority. It showed up a couple days later, and in superb condition. The book was in a plastic wrap, and the maps were in another one. I was reluctant to take it out, because this was a 1977 book in great condition.

I was amazed by what I read. The thought process that went into this game. AC, HD and other stats. How certain things happened. The infamous Egg of Coot. What an exciting time to be a gamer. I bet I'm not the only one here who would loved to be at the table for this campaign. Imagine creating it all for the first time and having others come and play and come back for more. Dave mentions the contributions others made to the campaign.

It's all there. I have only just skimmed through it, but I'm loving what I see. The dungeon maps under Blackmoor are cool. My brother used to use that style of mapping a lot. I like the stories that I've read about events that shaped the course of blackmoor, the battles. This really is a neat book.

I'm glad that Dave has an outlet for new Blackmoor stuff, because he definitely has something to contribute the the rpg. I'll probably check out some of that stuff at Gencon, though I don't really play 3.5. It would be worth it just to see what he's come up with.

I'll probably post more observations from this book after I give it a better read.

*****************************

Gsvenson:
It was an incredible experience! Especially, when you consider that when this was happening there was literally nothing else like it in the world and nothing to compare it to. Being one of the players was like being a major character in a "Lord of the Rings" or "Conan" novel. It was hard to wait for the next Saturday when you could find out what would happen next...

**************************


Apercu:

I love reading the stories about those days. You guys were laying the ground work for role playing games, and there are many people who don't realize what went on. Yes, the game is more polished now and everything, but back then it was being defined. This is why I would love that documentary to be released. Heck, I'd make a movie about it if I had the money.

That's why I'm glad I got this book, and I'm keeping my fingers crossed that I make the presentation at Gencon. Love Svensen's Freehold. The book had the maps and this little bit about it:

Greg Svensen began as a player with all the others, but during the later part of the first year, he really began clicking and had a character that has been a part of the game ever since that date. He plays more than most, but rather than take great risks, he runs to fight another day. Thus, although incredibly long lived, he is still only 15th level. There have been two ther players (Bob Meyer and Richard Sinder * , that have reached 20th level, getting them a free dinner, pat on the back and a retired character), but they are gone to a higher plane.

In his early days, Greg built a small keep for himself and some friends (all from Carr's FITS Society Group), and herin are the plans of that edifice. It was destroyed once (the second time Blackmoor fell) but was rebuilt in toto. Greg then went on to build Vesterfold Dungeon and another complete castle of his own on the Outdoor Survival Board.

* There's a section for Richard's additions on Dragons.

Probably shouldn't put too much out there as this is Dave's work. I just wanted to share that. The more I read, the more I like what I see. Loch Gloomen doesn't sound like a very fun place either.

****************************'

Gsvenson:

Quote:Apercu wrote:
Loch Gloomen doesn't sound like a very fun place either.

http://wayfarer.myfreeforum.org/viewtop ... f=40&t=185

Rafael:
Hi all,

It's summer, and time has come for me to prepare some of the campaigns
I want to run on the long hand...

My basic idea for my next campaign is to finally place it in Blackmoor Town and have the party explore Blackmoor Dungeon one level after another.

Yet, my base being the new DoCBM book from ZGG, I am a bit unsure how to lure the party in.

My idea was the following: Monsters again swarm out of Blackmoor Dungeon, and take back the castle, expulsing the royal family.

The whole city becomes a place for guerilla warfare and battles, as humans and elves unite again to take back Blackmoor bay from the servants of the old Sar-Aigu.

(Those are supposed to be major antagonists in that campaign; as to the Egg, I am not sure, but is extremely unlikely that it will play a role in this game.)

Yet, I am not too sure how to set it up...

So, any ideas will be more than welcome!

[As a further note, The map/descriptions given in the FFC will form the base of the outdoor parts of the campaign, while the main base for the dungeon part is supposed to be DoCBM. Estimated in game year will be some time about 1030, most likely 1034 or 1035.]

Hoping for you good suggestions!

Yours,

Rafael
**************************

Gsvenson:
I thought you had a pretty solid set of plans already. The Orc tribe in the dungeon would make a major force. While they took great losses both when the local heroes attacked them and when they took the town in the past, they have also had about 20 years to recover...

There are many ways in or out of the dungeon beyond the main entrance in the castle. If you have FFC, check the catacombs under the city. There is even an entrance under Zvenzen's Freehold.

Another tact might be to just have a small party of bad guys come out of the dungeon and steal something and then retreat into the dungeon. The adventurers could then be sent in to recover it.


*************************

Rafael:

Thank you! I see you answered quite some time ago already. :oops: Didn't get any more email notifications from my own board...

At least as far as I can see things going right now, I think I will indeed build something around the orc treat, and most likely Baron Fant, the vampire.
I haven't DMed a pure dungeon crawl in a while, so this will certainly be fun.

Yet, that is where I am not sure how to handle the situation. Directly under what is supposedly the mightiest fortress in all the northern lands, a mighty orc reibe dwells for over three decades now, only a few steps away from the king's dormitory? - That is what I have difficulties to understand.

Would it be logical if the dungeon had been cleaned totally, or at least being sealed?


********************************

Havard:
Will you be using the FFC map of Blackmoor town?

**************

Rafael:

Yeah ofcourse!

***********************'
Havard:


I asked because at least IMC the FFC material occurs about 30 years before ZGG material. The town doesn't seem too big on the FFC map, but perhaps the town has now grown a bit, leaving what is depicted on that map as the Old Town, while new settlements have been built outside the original walls?

Just an idea...

*************************

Rafael:

Probably - but the problem is that just don't have the power to re-design the entire Blackmoor city in the meantime. Especially with all the invasions from the Egg, and the impending danger from the dungeons, I doubt that Blackmoor was considered an attractive place to live. Maybe Uther just stayed there with his court precisely tzo keep control over the dungeon area...
***********************


Gsvenson:

The dungeon entrance into the basement of the castle has been sealed since the first time the orcs came out some 35 years ago now. When parties wanted to go in after that, the door that they wished to use was opened temporarily and heavily guarded. But there are lots of other ways into the dungeon. The catacombs under the city (I think that they are layed out in FFC) connect into the dungeon. If I remember correctly there are several tunnels from the catacombs that enter the dungeon on the 5th level.

The new town-old town concept is good. You could assume that the new town is mostly just additional peasant hovels outside of the city walls. That would make it relatively easy.

Baron Fant has been known as Sir Fang since his metamorphosis...

************************


Rafael:
It will be fun to tinker on that, I think.
IIRC, the FFC covers not all of BM town, and the maps are a bit confusing a well, since the buildings are numbered, but no description is given.

If I get some spare time, I think I'll first go on and describe every building corresponding to a number.

Baron Fang could be worthy BBEG for my campaign, since I in general like vampires as antagonists.
***********************************

-Havard

http://wayfarer.myfreeforum.org/viewtop ... f=40&t=186
The Official Connection between Blackmoor and the Wilderlands

Rafael:
Hi all,

Just checked my JG pdfs and was lucky to find the following:



This is from the "Island Book I".

Pretty clear as to how the old JG designers wanted to implement BM.

Maybe of use for crossover campaigns.
(More or less compliments with how I tend to use the setting...)

Yours,

Rafael

*************************

Plaag:
Knew about the connection like that, but the map gave me the idea to show how the Wilderlands progressed on my site (Course shall have to find the others as I can swear there is one in between that one and the fully numbered one)...Thanks for that Raf.

ShaneG.
*****************

Rob S Conley:

Does this help in visualizing the connection?

Enjoy
Rob Conley



[/img]

*************************

Havard

http://wayfarer.myfreeforum.org/viewtop ... f=40&t=160

Havard:

One of my old favorite topics for any setting!

Has anyone done anything with the various Churches and Temples of Blackmoor?

How does the Thonian Church look upon the Deities of the North for instance?

Havard

***********************

Gsvenson:

I am not sure. Mike Carr played the Bishop of Blackmoor in the original campaign. There was only one church/temple then, so I suppose that we were monotheistic at that time. He had a cute name for the church, but I don't recall what it was, the Church of the Facts of Life or something like that. I can't really answer for the current version of the setting.

_________________
Greg Svenson


*************************

Havard:
Ah, I remember reading something about this in the writeup for Bishop Carr in the FFC. It was a pretty funny writeup by the way.

My impression is that demihumans have their own churches. As do the Afridhi, the Skandaharians, the Froglin and the Peshwa. The Church of Thonia is probably the main religion both in the Empire and in Blackmoor as well as the Duchy of Ten. Not sure what the Duchy of the Peaks believe in other than their own pleasures.

I like the idea of the main religion being sort of Monotheistic. I'm thinking the different Deities could be more like saints or Aspects to live by rather than different Gods as such. This also fits well with the BECMI D&D rules where high level characters can become Immortals and have clerics getting spells from them.

Havard
****************************

Rafael:
Was that Mike Carr the same person that was later a high-rank employee at TSR and the author of Dawn Patrol? :mymy:

***********************

Gsvenson:
Yes, that's him. And "Dawn Patrol" was a redo of "Fight in the Skies" by Guidon Games. He also contributed to "Don't Give Up the Ship" with Dave Arneson and Gary Gygax, if I remember correctly. I last saw him in 1993 when I was on a business trip to Chicago, where he is a commodities trader. He was living just across the border in Wisconsin at the time.


****************************

Rafael:
I hope he's well. A friend of mine was a huge Dawn Patrol fan back in the day.

As to the original topic, IMC the human population of Blackmoor is basically monotheistic and worships only Odin (yeah, Odin). The church pof Blackmoor is the only real centre of worship, next to Fairfield Abbey.

***********************

-Havard

http://mmrpg.zeitgeistgames.com/index.p ... opic&t=441

Havard:
Over at the Pied Piper forum, someone expressed interest in seeing an rpg based on Dave Arneson's pre-Gygaxian way of gaming. Has ZGG considered publishing their own RPG system based on Arneson's old rules?

Would it be even theoretically possible to publish Blackmoor for such a system, or does the WotC lisence agreement require all BM supplements to be for the D20 system?

Havard

***********************

Falconer:
While we're waiting for a more-or-less official answer to that question, let me ask everyone else this:

Has anyone tried to recreate the original Arneson-style D&D using only Chainmail + FFC? Maybe filling in some holes with Adventures in Fantasy and OD&D and Blackmoor (Supplement II)?

I've experimented with adding a few FFC rules to my Gygaxian game, but I'd be interested in going full-out Arnesonian. There are some very interesting ideas, there. Regards.

_________________
Michael Falconer - http://ulmo.mux.net
"Because by fate even the gods are cast down, weep ye all with me."
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Havard:

I don't have Chainmail, but it sounds interesting. What is the core mechanic in Chainmail, if any?

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Falconer:
Well, Chainmail is essentially a "Medieval Miniatures" game for pitting armies against each other, but it has two very special additions: "Man-to-Man Combat" rules and the "Fantasy Supplement." Between these two aspects you essentially can play a sort of proto-D&D, missing most significantly the dungeon concept and character advancement, though it would take little work to add these if desired.

The "Fantasy Supplement" includes many of the spells (phantasmal forces, darkness, wizard light, detection, concealment, conjuration of an elemental, moving terrain, protection from evil, levitate, slowness, haste, polymorph, confusion, hallucinatory terrain, cloudkill, and anti-magic shell) and monsters (sprite, pixie, goblin, kobold, fairy, orc, wraith, lycanthrope, ogre, true troll, giant, ent, dragon--red, blue, white, black, green, and purple--, roc, wyvern, griffon, air elemental, djinn, earth elemental, fire elemental, efreet, water elemental, basilisk, chimera, giant spider, giant wolf, dire wolf, wight, and ghoul) that will make their way into D&D.

Here are also introduced Heroes (takes four "kills" to kill them) and Super Heroes (takes eight "kills" to kill them)--which in D&D will become fourth level and eighth level Fighters. Then there are Wizards (including Sorcerors at -1, Warlocks at -2, Magicians at -3, Seers at -4--compare with D&D Magic-User level titles). So already you have the two main D&D classes. And of course there are also Hobbits, Dwarves/Gnomes, and Elves to round out the lawful races (actually, Elves are neutral, and heroes and wizards can be lawful or chaotic).

The dice used are d6's (no "funny dice"). There's a "Man-to-Man Melee Table" where basically depending on the attacker's weapon and the defender's armor you're given a number you have to roll on 2d6 in order to score a "kill" (though as we've seen it may take multiple kills, so kills may be thought of as D&D "hits" where all hits score 1 point). A magical sword gives allows you to roll 3d6!

So a lot of the seemingly D&D references in FFC are really just to Chainmail. D&D also assumed you had Chainmail and refers back to it. Regards.

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Finarvyn:
I would love to give this a try, but a couple thoughts come to mind:
1. FFC is pretty confusing in places, such as magic system and whatnot. While there are some cool ideas therin, it's really hard to determine what Dave actually did for many of the rules.
2. AiF is also an interesting game, and I always assumed it was the game that Dave wanted D&D to become, but it doesn't seem to fit my concept of the style of the original campaign rules. I'm not entirely certain what I expected, but AiF is very formula-driven and more complex than I think the early campaigns must have been, so I'm not sure how much could be plucked from this source.
3. Chainmail seems to be the best bet here because it's not too complex and seems to use similar concepts to those mentioned in FFC.

If you have some ideas, I'd love to give them a try!

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-Havard