The Pygmalion

[Havard]

Okay, well its not rumors, its what Dave said in webposts on ODD74. If its rumors you'd like, I've been told by a very reliable source that Malia has said there are boxes of game material. Others acquainted with Dave have said the same. Hardly surprising really. There's no point at this point in speculating regarding exact content, but that some of the content would shed light on early Blackmoor is highly probable. As I said, time will tell. I'm sure when Malia feels enough time has passed for her to be able to deal with her fathers legacy, she will.

That is going to be one wonderful day

-Havard

[Havard]

I very much doubt any such folder of lost material existed, but who knows. Supplement II mimics the kind of content in Supplement one, and I'm sure that's deliberate. Arneson also made the comment in one of his interviews ( I think the mortality radio one, but I'm not sure) that he wrote the hit location system for supplement II because he was asked to. That tells me that he was asked for certain kinds of material for the supplement and that's what he provided. Of course, I notice these things because I've theorized that Gygax decided to publish the D&D rules "early" because he wanted to present rules as he preferred them without compromising with Dave anymore, so he developed the Greyhawk rules to that end and meant to let Dave have a chance for his rules in the Blackmoor supplement. But that's just me guessing.

I dont have the exact quote with me, but I seem to remember Kask describing parts of what Arneson submitted as unusable. My theory was that Arneson submitted at least enough material to make up for the page count of SuppII, but that much of it was replaced by Marsh/Kask/Gygax material. Basketfulls, right? If the submitted, but not used material was saved, that could have been what would have been in said folder. Your reasoning does have a logic to it though.

Havard

[aldarron]

Yeah, I remember kask writing something like that, but I'm thinking it was "unusable" because it was crunch that wasn't greyhawk compatible. I think, suspect anyway, that bits and pieces of the Unusable stuff were nevertheless woven in here and there. I really think young Kask was trying to be as true to Arneson as he thought he could be while making a product that would conform to the expectations of his employer Gygax. After all these were early days and Arneson would have been a senior figure to Kask.

[ripvanwormer]

On page 15 of the FFC, in the details on the Gin of Salik, the text refers to his search for the "famed Pygmalion" and thereafter the cryptic notes state "(see DB)". Does anyone have any information on this presumably female beauty, and secondly, to whom or to what does this abbreviation refer?

Artificial beings seem not uncommon in Blackmoor. Besides the Pygmalion, the Ran of Ah Fooh and Marfeldt the Barbarian both seem to have been created.

I'll note that the Wizard's Pit in Blackmoor's Catacombs is marked with the letter D. If "D8" isn't simply the eighth dungeon level, perhaps the Pygmalion is in Room 8 in the Wizard's Pit. Perhaps she was created by the wizard who was once imprisoned there 500 years ago (Dave Arneson's Blackmoor places the Wizard's Pit beneath the University, and dates him as at least 500 years older. Maybe there were two wizards, imprisoned there 500 years apart).

500 years ago was also the time of the Temple of Id's destruction, so perhaps the same wizard was connected with that. It'd be interesting if the Baron's own attendant wizard, the creator of the famed Pygmalion, was arrested and imprisoned after it was discovered that he was in league with/the mastermind of the Temple of Id.

Needing a name for an ancient evil wizard, it's tempting to use Raddan Goss, though he's probably too recent.

I also thought the Pygmalion might be the same as the Wife of Ilmarinen described in the Master DM's Book.

[aldarron]

....

I'll note that the Wizard's Pit in Blackmoor's Catacombs is marked with the letter D. If "D8" isn't simply the eighth dungeon level, perhaps the Pygmalion is in Room 8 in the Wizard's Pit. Perhaps she was created by the wizard who was once imprisoned there 500 years ago (Dave Arneson's Blackmoor places the Wizard's Pit beneath the University, and dates him as at least 500 years older. Maybe there were two wizards, imprisoned there 500 years apart).

Interesting ideas. So if I follow you, you are suggesting that the letter B is actually a typo for the number 8; and the note then indicates the pygmalion was on level 8 of the dungeon? I don't think the fact that the note about the wizard is marked with letter D is of any significance, but the typo idea has some merit.

....500 years ago was also the time of the Temple of Id's destruction, so perhaps the same wizard was connected with that. It'd be interesting if the Baron's own attendant wizard, the creator of the famed Pygmalion, was arrested and imprisoned after it was discovered that he was in league with/the mastermind of the Temple of Id....
....

I associate the murder of the Bloody Duke with the subsequent destruction of the temple. Since there are connections between Blackmoor Dungeon, which was built by the Duke, and the temple, it seems likely that there was a general purge of things associated with the duke after he was killed. The wizard could well have been an ally of his, who met his doom with the downfall of the duke.

[ripvanwormer]

Interesting ideas. So if I follow you, you are suggesting that the letter B is actually a typo for the number 8

I actually misread B as 8. B and 8 aren't very close together on an ASCII typewriter, so it probably wasn't a typo. Perhaps the Wizard's Pit has a room B..

[Havard]

I'll note that the Wizard's Pit in Blackmoor's Catacombs is marked with the letter D. If "D8" isn't simply the eighth dungeon level, perhaps the Pygmalion is in Room 8 in the Wizard's Pit. Perhaps she was created by the wizard who was once imprisoned there 500 years ago (Dave Arneson's Blackmoor places the Wizard's Pit beneath the University, and dates him as at least 500 years older. Maybe there were two wizards, imprisoned there 500 years apart).

I based Master Graelwende from this story on the wizard from the Pit. Do we have any clue to how long the Pygmalion has been around?

I also thought the Pygmalion might be the same as the Wife of Ilmarinen described in the Master DM's Book.

That is not a bad idea, though the Pygmalion Legend is more optimistic than the version from Finnish myths.

In my campaign I have connected the creator of the Pygmalion to the Gargoyle Hills. Basically my idea is that after creating the Pygmalion, the wizard kept his ability to create living statues. The Pygmalion left her creator, but the wizard went into the Hills and kept making new statues. However, these statues were terrible in appearance and would attack anyone seeking out the wizard.


-Havard

[ripvanwormer]

I based Master Graelwende from this story on the wizard from the Pit. Do we have any clue to how long the Pygmalion has been around?

I don't. I suggested that the Pygmalion could have been found in the Wizard's Pit purely because there's a letter D associated with it, which is admittedly thin evidence. But perhaps Graelwende made the Pygmalion.

In my campaign I have connected the creator of the Pygmalion to the Gargoyle Hills. Basically my idea is that after creating the Pygmalion, the wizard kept his ability to create living statues. The Pygmalion left her creator, but the wizard went into the Hills and kept making new statues. However, these statues were terrible in appearance and would attack anyone seeking out the wizard.

That's really interesting. So the Pygmalion has a horde of monstrous siblings who may desire to bring their lost sister into their fold. If the Gin of Salik (or someone else) manages to recover her, then, perhaps he'll have to deal with waves of gargoyle-like statues attacking him wherever he goes, seeking out their eldest and greatest sister in order to learn from her the forgotten secret of how to create more of their strange kind. Or perhaps she is the only female of their species and the gargoyles desire her as a mate.

[RobJN]

I based Master Graelwende from this story on the wizard from the Pit. Do we have any clue to how long the Pygmalion has been around?

I don't. I suggested that the Pygmalion could have been found in the Wizard's Pit purely because there's a letter D associated with it, which is admittedly thin evidence. But perhaps Graelwende made the Pygmalion.

In my campaign I have connected the creator of the Pygmalion to the Gargoyle Hills. Basically my idea is that after creating the Pygmalion, the wizard kept his ability to create living statues. The Pygmalion left her creator, but the wizard went into the Hills and kept making new statues. However, these statues were terrible in appearance and would attack anyone seeking out the wizard.

That's really interesting. So the Pygmalion has a horde of monstrous siblings who may desire to bring their lost sister into their fold. If the Gin of Salik (or someone else) manages to recover her, then, perhaps he'll have to deal with waves of gargoyle-like statues attacking him wherever he goes, seeking out their eldest and greatest sister in order to learn from her the forgotten secret of how to create more of their strange kind. Or perhaps she is the only female of their species and the gargoyles desire her as a mate.

Thorn's Blackmoor has a monster I've called the stone dryad, a stony creature as beautiful as the gargoyles are ugly. Their method of creation has been lost to the mists of time, but Thorn theorizes that they are somehow linked to the shrikes and sirens' death-and-rebirth process...

[aldarron]

Jon Peterson has released a 'blogpost with a ton of info on Pygmalian and the Gin. Super cool stuff written by Arneson that clears up a lot about where these characters originated http://playingattheworld.blogspot.com/20...ut-of.html

There's also a lot of stuff to be mined for campaign background and narrative purposes. (Looking at you Havard) Check it out.