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+--- Thread: The Pygmalion (/showthread.php?tid=481)
The Pygmalion - DungeonDevil - 10-02-2010
On page 15 of the FFC, in the details on the Gin of Salik, the text refers to his search for the "famed Pygmalion" and thereafter the cryptic notes state "(see DB)". Does anyone have any information on this presumably female beauty, and secondly, to whom or to what does this abbreviation refer?
- Havard - 10-03-2010
Both this section and others, like that of the Duke of the Peaks have lots of references to phenomena from Greek Mythology.
I was thinking that she is a Living Ivory Statue. Use Living Crystal Statue as basis, but with maybe 10 HD and some charm powers.
I'm thinking she does not wish to be found by the Gin. OTOH, the Dungeon in which she resides could be an hitherto unknown adventure location. Another possibility is that she is trapped in the Palace of Starport.
Edit: I would really like to know what "DB" is though... Dave's Blackmoor?
-Havard
- aldarron - 10-03-2010
Havard Wrote:Both this section and others, like that of the Duke of the Peaks have lots of references to phenomena from Greek Mythology.
I was thinking that she is a Living Ivory Statue. Use Living Crystal Statue as basis, but with maybe 10 HD and some charm powers.
I'm thinking she does not wish to be found by the Gin. OTOH, the Dungeon in which she resides could be an hitherto unknown adventure location. Another possibility is that she is trapped in the Palace of Starport.
Edit: I would really like to know what "DB" is though... Dave's Blackmoor?
-Havard
I've assumed that "DB" stood for Dungeon of Blackmoor/Blackmoor Dungeon, in which case Pygmalion should have been in one of Dave's lost stocking lists. (Lost or possibly sitting in a box in Malia Arnesons attic, time will tell.) Or she possibly is there and we just don't know the shorthand Dave used to remind himself. The "Stone Guards" are an intriguing reference here.
Dave used Cryptic abbreviations a couple of other times in the FFC but one can usually make a guess about them if you look hard enough.
- Havard - 10-04-2010
Your assumption makes sense Aldarron. I guess it is not unlikely that the Pygmalion was last seen in the Blackmoor Dungeon. It is intriguing to think of the various lost files that might be out there wrt Blackmoor. I would also have loved to see the original manuscript that Dave submitted for Supp II. My personal theory is that the reason for the TSR staff's negative reaction to this manuscript was not just due to the quality of the manuscript, but also the fact that they were interested in rules (aka Crunch), whereas much of Arneson's material would have been background material, which was something TSR did not begin to focus on until after 1981.
Back to Pygmalion, I have a working theory that Blackmoor's Pygmalion was crafted by the God known as Kadis (Patron of Miners), and that an alternate name for the Living Statue would be The Daughter of Kadis (I prefer not using direct references to RW phenomena in the game). The rumour that the Pygmalion can be found somewhere in the North is probably the main reason why the Gin of Salik (Prince of Salik IMC) has arrived in the region.
-Havard
- DungeonDevil - 10-04-2010
Great feedback, guys! Thanks!
That's what I'm loving about Blackmoor: the more you dig the more interesting trivia comes to light!
- aldarron - 10-04-2010
Havard Wrote:I would also have loved to see the original manuscript that Dave submitted for Supp II. My personal theory is that the reason for the TSR staff's negative reaction to this manuscript was not just due to the quality of the manuscript, but also the fact that they were interested in rules (aka Crunch), whereas much of Arneson's material would have been background material, which was something TSR did not begin to focus on until after 1981.
-Havard
Yeah, I think (and I've got a reason for thinking so) that the material Arneson submitted was probably not so disorganized and scattered. I think Blume's "editing" was largely responsible for the disorganized "basketfull of papers" (who else would have put them there in the first place?). The character classes, NPC and some of the monsters were definetely reworked and re "crunched", but I personally think there probably wasn't a whole lot of mystery material left out. I don't think TSR purposfully cut out any of Arnesons fluff. Might be an interesting question for Kask.* I suspect they would have kept it to pad the page count if they had it. But Arneson was asked to submit certain kinds of material for the supplement to match the style of Greyhawk, so that's what we got. RJK's Khalibrun looks like it was meant to be much the same - new classes, combat rules, etc. rather than setting info per se.
EDIT: Changed my thinking on that. I suspect that the "Special Interests" and "Investments" sections of the FFC, may have been intended for Supp II. They seem to have been written around that time.
- Havard - 10-06-2010
Aldarron Wrote:Yeah, I think (and I've got a reason for thinking so) that the material Arneson submitted was probably not so disorganized and scattered. I think Blume's "editing" was largely responsible for the disorganized "basketfull of papers" (who else would have put them there in the first place?). The character classes, NPC and some of the monsters were definetely reworked and re "crunched", but I personally think there probably wasn't a whole lot of mystery material left out. I don't think TSR purposfully cut out any of Arnesons fluff. Might be an interesting question for Kask. I suspect they would have kept it to pad the page count if they had it. But Arneson was asked to submit certain kinds of material for the supplement to match the style of Greyhawk, so that's what we got. RJK's Khalibrun looks like it was meant to be much the same - new classes, combat rules, etc. rather than setting info per se.
That is a pretty interesting theory of what happened. My assumption was that Arneson was given just a very general request on what to submit and that TSR were then disappointed that it was so different from GH. I had not taken Blumes role into account however.
It is also possible that some of the things Arneson submitted were picked up by Ritchie from a Blackmoor archive folder Kask or Blumes may have left behind.
-Havard
- DungeonDevil - 10-06-2010
After DLA's death (
) I've heard whispers about the possibility that he had unpublished papers which may shed light on his various and sundry creative endeavours. What likelihood is there that he kept paperwork going back that far (i.e. 30+ years)?
- aldarron - 10-06-2010
DungeonDevil Wrote:After DLA's death (
Okay, well its not rumors, its what Dave said in webposts on ODD74. If its rumors you'd like, I've been told by a very reliable source that Malia has said there are boxes of game material. Others acquainted with Dave have said the same. Hardly surprising really. There's no point at this point in speculating regarding exact content, but that some of the content would shed light on early Blackmoor is highly probable. As I said, time will tell. I'm sure when Malia feels enough time has passed for her to be able to deal with her fathers legacy, she will.
- aldarron - 10-06-2010
Havard Wrote:Aldarron Wrote:Yeah, I think (and I've got a reason for thinking so) that the material Arneson submitted was probably not so disorganized and scattered. I think Blume's "editing" was largely responsible for the disorganized "basketfull of papers" (who else would have put them there in the first place?). The character classes, NPC and some of the monsters were definetely reworked and re "crunched", but I personally think there probably wasn't a whole lot of mystery material left out. I don't think TSR purposfully cut out any of Arnesons fluff. Might be an interesting question for Kask. I suspect they would have kept it to pad the page count if they had it. But Arneson was asked to submit certain kinds of material for the supplement to match the style of Greyhawk, so that's what we got. RJK's Khalibrun looks like it was meant to be much the same - new classes, combat rules, etc. rather than setting info per se.
That is a pretty interesting theory of what happened. My assumption was that Arneson was given just a very general request on what to submit and that TSR were then disappointed that it was so different from GH. I had not taken Blumes role into account however.
It is also possible that some of the things Arneson submitted were picked up by Ritchie from a Blackmoor archive folder Kask or Blumes may have left behind.
-Havard
I very much doubt any such folder of lost material existed, but who knows. Supplement II mimics the kind of content in Supplement one, and I'm sure that's deliberate. Arneson also made the comment in one of his interviews ( I think the mortality radio one, but I'm not sure) that he wrote the hit location system for supplement II because he was asked to. That tells me that he was asked for certain kinds of material for the supplement and that's what he provided. Of course, I notice these things because I've theorized that Gygax decided to publish the D&D rules "early" because he wanted to present rules as he preferred them without compromising with Dave anymore, so he developed the Greyhawk rules to that end and meant to let Dave have a chance for his rules in the Blackmoor supplement. But that's just me guessing.