02-03-2012, 11:23 AM
Really nice work Havard, but you are a Devil for doing this now when I havn't got a lot of time to really dig into it.
Yes. should mean the major tirbes.
Yes again. I think the Briela are the FFC Gypsies
To these I would add the OD&D entry for nomads.
I beleive the desert nomads, and the Ben Hassock are the same group and are the predecessors of the Bortai as you suggest (not the Irfat, but the Irfat may have be seen as allies, see below).
To these I would add both the the OD&D entry for dervishes and
the "Dervish" entry found in Arnesons playtest manuscript which I know you haven't seen yet but is very close in wording to the OD&D entry for Orcs (wagons and all).
These together are the model for the Sufz, I believe.
I know your objection, "The Sufz and Bortai share the eastern Hak".
They don't, in my mind, because the eastern Hak is completely impossible. It makes no more sense than if one were to drop the entire Ukraine in between Medieval Denmark and Norway and then talk about how Norway is a province of Denmark.
On the old maps Blackmoor's borders the Great Kingdom (Thonia, if you like) on the southeast and it thus makes sense as a province of the Kingdom.
To the west of Blackmoor, beyond lake gloomy, lie the both Deserts and the Duchy of Ten. The eastern and western Karsh are nearby also.
Southern Ten/Eastern Karsh is where I would put the Sufz. Westen Karsh is where I would put the Bortai/BenHassocks. The two are still closely associated and make sense. Ritchie's "Great Barrier Swamp" becomes a problem because it sits exactly where the eastern Karsh should be, but if one sees the Barrier swamp as forming at the same time as the rest of the sinking lands with Coots rise, it solves that issue and allows the historic association of Ten as a territory of the DotP to make sense too.
If you don't do it this way you are left with a real problem regarding the nomads of Ten. By thier force composition, they are clearly horse warriors and nomadic. The Irfat would be the only possible candidate, I think, and I'm not sure thier description as basically tomb defenders can be made to fit with the aggresive alliance building nomads of Ten.
Havard Wrote:So where in the new material can we find traces of these groups?
Horsemen of Peshwah
This could ofcourse refer to multiple tribes, but they would definately include the Adiel who are described as the "Archetypical Peshwah". Ordniri and Somhak may also be included here.
Yes. should mean the major tirbes.
Havard Wrote:Gypsies
The Briela are described as "a kind of Gypsies" which is my main reason for including them here. The Zah may also be included here, though they tend to stick to the area near the Salt Tower/Salt Town.
Yes again. I think the Briela are the FFC Gypsies
Havard Wrote:Ben-Hassock
This is one of the more hostile groups, at least historically. At first I thought this could be a reference to an early version of the Afridhi. Greg has said that the Afridhi did appear during the original game. Another theory is that they are the Bortai (but see Desert Nomads below).
Desert Nomads
These could either be the Leron or the Bortai (or both). Both the Leron and the Bortain live near the Desert near the Valley of the Ancients. The Chief of the Nomads could correspond to DA1's Sirk Am Peshwah who is a Bortai.
To these I would add the OD&D entry for nomads.
I beleive the desert nomads, and the Ben Hassock are the same group and are the predecessors of the Bortai as you suggest (not the Irfat, but the Irfat may have be seen as allies, see below).
Havard Wrote:Nomads of Ten
These could also be the Afridhi, but it seems more likely that they are the Irfat. It is said that they were allied with the Duchy of Ten before the Afridhi Invasion of that land. They are descrbed as "The Black Riders" who live for war. Qulaam may also be included here.
To these I would add both the the OD&D entry for dervishes and
the "Dervish" entry found in Arnesons playtest manuscript which I know you haven't seen yet but is very close in wording to the OD&D entry for Orcs (wagons and all).
These together are the model for the Sufz, I believe.
I know your objection, "The Sufz and Bortai share the eastern Hak".
They don't, in my mind, because the eastern Hak is completely impossible. It makes no more sense than if one were to drop the entire Ukraine in between Medieval Denmark and Norway and then talk about how Norway is a province of Denmark.
On the old maps Blackmoor's borders the Great Kingdom (Thonia, if you like) on the southeast and it thus makes sense as a province of the Kingdom.
To the west of Blackmoor, beyond lake gloomy, lie the both Deserts and the Duchy of Ten. The eastern and western Karsh are nearby also.
Southern Ten/Eastern Karsh is where I would put the Sufz. Westen Karsh is where I would put the Bortai/BenHassocks. The two are still closely associated and make sense. Ritchie's "Great Barrier Swamp" becomes a problem because it sits exactly where the eastern Karsh should be, but if one sees the Barrier swamp as forming at the same time as the rest of the sinking lands with Coots rise, it solves that issue and allows the historic association of Ten as a territory of the DotP to make sense too.
If you don't do it this way you are left with a real problem regarding the nomads of Ten. By thier force composition, they are clearly horse warriors and nomadic. The Irfat would be the only possible candidate, I think, and I'm not sure thier description as basically tomb defenders can be made to fit with the aggresive alliance building nomads of Ten.