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When Nomads become Peshwah - Havard - 02-02-2012
The FFC identifies several different nomadic groups living in the North. One of them is the Peshwah. However, it seems to me that the DA modules and the ZG books have redefined the Peshwah as to include all of these groups, though giving them distinctive clan names.
From the FFC I can think of the following:
- Horsemen of Peshwah: Supported the Earl of Vestfold during the first Coot Invasions.
- Ben Hassock: Invaded Blackmoor about "400 years ago". The "Weasel" departed to their lands prior to the Coot Invasions.
- Desert Nomads: The Chief of the Nomads is said to be found in the Desert. It is unclear whether this is a separate group of Nomads, or one of the other listed groups.
- Nomads of Ten: Allied with the Duchy of Ten/Egg of Coot during the Coot Invasions. Second Nomad Invasions wiped out by the Sniders.
- Gypsies: Gypsy Chance Cards. "Gypsy accents are terrible"
I am not including in this list Skandaharians, Picts or Valemen which are not describes as Nomadic cultures.
So where in the new material can we find traces of these groups?
Horsemen of Peshwah
This could ofcourse refer to multiple tribes, but they would definately include the Adiel who are described as the "Archetypical Peshwah". Ordniri and Somhak may also be included here.
Ben-Hassock
This is one of the more hostile groups, at least historically. At first I thought this could be a reference to an early version of the Afridhi. Greg has said that the Afridhi did appear during the original game. Another theory is that they are the Bortai (but see Desert Nomads below).
Desert Nomads
These could either be the Leron or the Bortai (or both). Both the Leron and the Bortain live near the Desert near the Valley of the Ancients. The Chief of the Nomads could correspond to DA1's Sirk Am Peshwah who is a Bortai.
Nomads of Ten
These could also be the Afridhi, but it seems more likely that they are the Irfat. It is said that they were allied with the Duchy of Ten before the Afridhi Invasion of that land. They are descrbed as "The Black Riders" who live for war. Qulaam may also be included here.
Gypsies
The Briela are described as "a kind of Gypsies" which is my main reason for including them here. The Zah may also be included here, though they tend to stick to the area near the Salt Tower/Salt Town.
See my blog article to get a quick summary and map of the various Peshwah Tribes mentioned here. What is interesting about mapping the tribes to the FFC groups is that it means we can get more information about each group. While this is all probably highly speculative, the matches are IMO remarkable.
Thoughts?
-Havard
Re: When Nomads become Peshwah - aldarron - 02-03-2012
Really nice work Havard, but you are a Devil for doing this now when I havn't got a lot of time to really dig into it.
Havard Wrote:So where in the new material can we find traces of these groups?
Horsemen of Peshwah
This could ofcourse refer to multiple tribes, but they would definately include the Adiel who are described as the "Archetypical Peshwah". Ordniri and Somhak may also be included here.
Yes. should mean the major tirbes.
Havard Wrote:Gypsies
The Briela are described as "a kind of Gypsies" which is my main reason for including them here. The Zah may also be included here, though they tend to stick to the area near the Salt Tower/Salt Town.
Yes again. I think the Briela are the FFC Gypsies
Havard Wrote:Ben-Hassock
This is one of the more hostile groups, at least historically. At first I thought this could be a reference to an early version of the Afridhi. Greg has said that the Afridhi did appear during the original game. Another theory is that they are the Bortai (but see Desert Nomads below).
Desert Nomads
These could either be the Leron or the Bortai (or both). Both the Leron and the Bortain live near the Desert near the Valley of the Ancients. The Chief of the Nomads could correspond to DA1's Sirk Am Peshwah who is a Bortai.
To these I would add the OD&D entry for nomads.
I beleive the desert nomads, and the Ben Hassock are the same group and are the predecessors of the Bortai as you suggest (not the Irfat, but the Irfat may have be seen as allies, see below).
Havard Wrote:Nomads of Ten
These could also be the Afridhi, but it seems more likely that they are the Irfat. It is said that they were allied with the Duchy of Ten before the Afridhi Invasion of that land. They are descrbed as "The Black Riders" who live for war. Qulaam may also be included here.
To these I would add both the the OD&D entry for dervishes and
the "Dervish" entry found in Arnesons playtest manuscript which I know you haven't seen yet but is very close in wording to the OD&D entry for Orcs (wagons and all).
These together are the model for the Sufz, I believe.
I know your objection, "The Sufz and Bortai share the eastern Hak".
They don't, in my mind, because the eastern Hak is completely impossible. It makes no more sense than if one were to drop the entire Ukraine in between Medieval Denmark and Norway and then talk about how Norway is a province of Denmark.
On the old maps Blackmoor's borders the Great Kingdom (Thonia, if you like) on the southeast and it thus makes sense as a province of the Kingdom.
To the west of Blackmoor, beyond lake gloomy, lie the both Deserts and the Duchy of Ten. The eastern and western Karsh are nearby also.
Southern Ten/Eastern Karsh is where I would put the Sufz. Westen Karsh is where I would put the Bortai/BenHassocks. The two are still closely associated and make sense. Ritchie's "Great Barrier Swamp" becomes a problem because it sits exactly where the eastern Karsh should be, but if one sees the Barrier swamp as forming at the same time as the rest of the sinking lands with Coots rise, it solves that issue and allows the historic association of Ten as a territory of the DotP to make sense too.
If you don't do it this way you are left with a real problem regarding the nomads of Ten. By thier force composition, they are clearly horse warriors and nomadic. The Irfat would be the only possible candidate, I think, and I'm not sure thier description as basically tomb defenders can be made to fit with the aggresive alliance building nomads of Ten.
Re: When Nomads become Peshwah - Havard - 02-03-2012
Aldarron Wrote:Really nice work Havard, but you are a Devil for doing this now when I havn't got a lot of time to really dig into it.
Thanks Dan, I was hoping you would jump in here!
Havard Wrote:So where in the new material can we find traces of these groups?
Quote:Horsemen of Peshwah
This could ofcourse refer to multiple tribes, but they would definately include the Adiel who are described as the "Archetypical Peshwah". Ordniri and Somhak may also be included here.
Yes. should mean the major tirbes.
Although I just noticed something else. On the FFC the "Horsemen of Peshwah" are indicated to live on the Eastern Hak. But more on this below.
Quote:Yes again. I think the Briela are the FFC Gypsies
Makes sense.
Ben-Hassock & Desert Nomads
Quote:To these I would add the OD&D entry for nomads.
I beleive the desert nomads, and the Ben Hassock are the same group and are the predecessors of the Bortai as you suggest (not the Irfat, but the Irfat may have be seen as allies, see below).
Hmmm...I was really liking the Ben Hassock/Afridhi connection. Especially if this could mean Baron Wesley is hiding in the Afridhi Empire.... :twisted:
Quote:To these I would add both the the OD&D entry for dervishes and
the "Dervish" entry found in Arnesons playtest manuscript which I know you haven't seen yet but is very close in wording to the OD&D entry for Orcs (wagons and all).
Any chance of getting to see these notes? 8) :mrgreen:
Quote:These together are the model for the Sufz, I believe.
Very interesting. From the name alone I agree that it sounds like a good match. Is anything else said about the Dervishes?
I know your objection, "The Sufz and Bortai share the eastern Hak".
Quote:They don't, in my mind, because the eastern Hak is completely impossible. It makes no more sense than if one were to drop the entire Ukraine in between Medieval Denmark and Norway and then talk about how Norway is a province of Denmark.
On the old maps Blackmoor's borders the Great Kingdom (Thonia, if you like) on the southeast and it thus makes sense as a province of the Kingdom.
To the west of Blackmoor, beyond lake gloomy, lie the both Deserts and the Duchy of Ten. The eastern and western Karsh are nearby also.
Southern Ten/Eastern Karsh is where I would put the Sufz. Westen Karsh is where I would put the Bortai/BenHassocks. The two are still closely associated and make sense. Ritchie's "Great Barrier Swamp" becomes a problem because it sits exactly where the eastern Karsh should be, but if one sees the Barrier swamp as forming at the same time as the rest of the sinking lands with Coots rise, it solves that issue and allows the historic association of Ten as a territory of the DotP to make sense too.
One minor correction. The Barrier Swamp is not Ritchie's invention, as it appears on the FFC map. Also, as mentioned early in this post, the Peshwah are placed to the south east next to the label for the "Grand Kingdom".
But yeah, things were do definately seem to have been changed along the way. Actually what is the most fascinating is how many of the original concepts were in fact retained in the later versions. I think the differences in the version you describe occur somewhere between 1970 and 1975. As you know the FFC also includes the first draft of the Blackmoor map, which is different from the FFC fold-out map which I refer to.
The Peshwah Tribes from the DA modules/ZG books do indeed fit very well with the various earlier concepts. However based on what you have provided above, it seems clear that things were moved around quite a bit.
OTOH, the DA modules/ZG books specify that the Afridhi invasions have pushed the various tribes to the east, so this could perhaps be an in-game explanation for their shifted locations? These books are set 30-35 years later afterall.
Quote:If you don't do it this way you are left with a real problem regarding the nomads of Ten. By thier force composition, they are clearly horse warriors and nomadic. The Irfat would be the only possible candidate, I think, and I'm not sure thier description as basically tomb defenders can be made to fit with the aggresive alliance building nomads of Ten.
Again, the FFC map showed something I hadnt noticed when I wrote the first post. The Nomads of Ten label is placed close to the Qulaam holdings, not far from the Irfat. But ofcourse if we assume that tribes have been moved around as a response to the invasions, there could be multiple links here. OTOH, the Irfat are considerably war-like, and I could easily see them allying with the Duchy of Ten against Blackmoor, especially during the first Coot invasions when Ran has not yet taken over that Duchy.
Obviously we are (as usual) probably making the mistake of overestimating the amount of thought Arneson, Ritchie and Dustin may have put into all of this, but its more fun looking at it like a puzzle in this way, isnt it? 8)
-Havard
Re: When Nomads become Peshwah - aldarron - 02-04-2012
Havard Wrote:Hmmm...I was really liking the Ben Hassock/Afridhi connection. Especially if this could mean Baron Wesley is hiding in the Afridhi Empire.... :twisted:
The whole things a bit tricky, but the Ben Hassock don't really fit as Afridhi because they are tribal raiders of Blackmoor going back at least 5 centuries. So they must be fairly closeby. Not a slowly spreading conqueror from the far west.
Havard Wrote:Any chance of getting to see these notes? 8) :mrgreen:
Ye old cut and paste:
Dervishes: Fanatically religious Nomads who have +2 on hit dice and
also never retreat unless three 6's are rolled. They will be led as per Bandits with the following exception: Any band of Dervishes wi~l
have a 50% chance of having a M.agic-User leading them, as well as a
Troll (die 5-6) amoung them. They will defend their lair until outnUJlllbered
4 - 1 without thought of surrender. I f in the open, there will
be a ~5% chance that they are escorting a wagon train or rrom 2 - 1'2
Wagons with 1000 - 6000 GP in each wagon. Wagon Trains will be guarded
by an additional 10 orcs per wagon. Wagon Trains will always be lead
by either a Fighting Man (die 1-4 Superhero, 5-6 Lord) or a Magic-User
(1-2 Sorcerer, 3-4 Necromancer, 5-6 Wizard) with a 50% chance for
either.
Havard Wrote:One minor correction. The Barrier Swamp is not Ritchie's invention, as it appears on the FFC map. Also, as mentioned early in this post, the Peshwah are placed to the south east next to the label for the "Grand Kingdom".
Great catch. Thanks for pointing that out. I always forget about those maps because I don't have a physical copy (I guess it didn't come with the '77 print).
What I think I see is a map drawn and hand colored by dave with his pencils (ala his description on pg 26) and a second B&W map prepared from it by judges guild.
The colored map shows a much smaller barrier swamp. since some of the hexs are only partly colored I assume that was the size Dave intended. So the swamp wouldn't have been at all impassable until it expands with the sinking.
Both maps show "nomads of ten" (in yellow for desert?) directly opposite loch glomin. This is The The Plains of Hak on the new map, and good evidence that the Nomads of Ten must be (now at least) peshwah.
The B&W map puts the Peshwah to the south of the wurm river and the VOA and Dragon hills, while marking the area east of the Wurm as "to the grand Kingdom".
That works, I think. If the "eastern Hak" is originally The VOA and some area east of it, more or less bounded by the Wurm, that leaves a wide corridor commecting directly to Thonia. It shrinks the size of it considerably but....
Havard Wrote:But yeah, things were do definately seem to have been changed along the way. Actually what is the most fascinating is how many of the original concepts were in fact retained in the later versions. I think the differences in the version you describe occur somewhere between 1970 and 1975. As you know the FFC also includes the first draft of the Blackmoor map, which is different from the FFC fold-out map which I refer to.
...
The Peshwah Tribes from the DA modules/ZG books do indeed fit very
well with the various earlier concepts. However based on what you have provided above, it seems clear that things were moved around quite a bit.
OTOH, the DA modules/ZG books specify that the Afridhi invasions have pushed the various tribes to the east, so this could perhaps be an in-game explanation for their shifted locations? These books are set 30-35 years later afterall.
Brilliant observation Herr Viking! Since the Sufz seem to be a good fit for the FFC Nomads of Ten, one could easily suggest that they moved to the eastern Hak after the Afridhi invasions.
It would also be quite possible that the "Eastern Hak" could have expanded at this time from a relatively small strip of land occupied by the Bortai to its later size. Assuming the territory between the great kingdom and Blackmoor was largely abandoned by Thonian settlers (perhaps the farms had failed), it could have been claimed by the Sufz.
Havard Wrote:Again, the FFC map showed something I hadnt noticed when I wrote the first post. The Nomads of Ten label is placed close to the Qulaam holdings, not far from the Irfat. But ofcourse if we assume that tribes have been moved around as a response to the invasions, there could be multiple links here. OTOH, the Irfat are considerably war-like, and I could easily see them allying with the Duchy of Ten against Blackmoor, especially during the first Coot invasions when Ran has not yet taken over that Duchy.
Maybe. Will give it more thought but at the moment am still favoring the Sufz.
There is one key difficulty that has to be addressed, that being that the Nomads of Ten and the Horsemen of Peshwah are on different sides in this war. While that doesn't mean that they were actually fighting each other, it still has to be explained if we are going to say the Nomads were Peshwah.
Havard Wrote:Obviously we are (as usual) probably making the mistake of overestimating the amount of thought Arneson, Ritchie and Dustin may have put into all of this, but its more fun looking at it like a puzzle in this way, isnt it? 8)
-Havard
Definetly! I think the associations were more subconcious than deliberate, but it would be great to iron out a consistent narrative.
Re: When Nomads become Peshwah - Havard - 02-06-2012
Aldarron Wrote:The whole things a bit tricky, but the Ben Hassock don't really fit as Afridhi because they are tribal raiders of Blackmoor going back at least 5 centuries. So they must be fairly closeby. Not a slowly spreading conqueror from the far west.
I tend to agree, although it would have been very interesting if the Afridhi had indeed been to Blackmoor centuries earlier. I
Quote:Ye old cut and paste:
Thanks! Are these mentioned in any particular context, such as involved in a specific battle etc?
Quote:Great catch. Thanks for pointing that out. I always forget about those maps because I don't have a physical copy (I guess it didn't come with the '77 print).
I hadnt really thought that so much information could be gained from that map either. It does at least show alot of similarities between the FFC and DA versions of Blackmoor. BTW I have the 2nd print version from '77 and it features two JG poster maps...
Quote:What I think I see is a map drawn and hand colored by dave with his pencils (ala his description on pg 26) and a second B&W map prepared from it by judges guild.
The colored map shows a much smaller barrier swamp. since some of the hexs are only partly colored I assume that was the size Dave intended. So the swamp wouldn't have been at all impassable until it expands with the sinking.
Both maps show "nomads of ten" (in yellow for desert?) directly opposite loch glomin. This is The The Plains of Hak on the new map, and good evidence that the Nomads of Ten must be (now at least) peshwah.
The B&W map puts the Peshwah to the south of the wurm river and the VOA and Dragon hills, while marking the area east of the Wurm as "to the grand Kingdom".
That works, I think. If the "eastern Hak" is originally The VOA and some area east of it, more or less bounded by the Wurm, that leaves a wide corridor commecting directly to Thonia. It shrinks the size of it considerably but....
This seems fairly similar to the interior map on page 15 of the FFC. That one also has a Desert in the south-western corner.
It seems to me that the Blackmoor map must have been revised at least X times in the 1970s:
1. Blackmoor expands from the Dungeon. Coot Invasions etc (1972)
2. Adventures in Lake Gloomy (1973)
3. When the PCs began getting their own holdings. Map expanded to the south to include the New Lands. (1974?)
4. Redrawing the map in preparation for the FFC. "I have decided that it would be advantageous to make some minor changes along the south and west borders to link it with the Judges Guild's Known World area...". Valley of the Ancients added.
The question is what happens to the Desert during these revisions:
a) It becomes squeezed into the middle, becoming effectively the Valley of the Ancients? Probably the Southern Desert was the location of the City of the Gods, originally.
b) Turned into the Plains of Hak
c) Shifted further away to the southwest, assumed to be somewhere beyond the map?
As to the Eastern Hak, it may very well be that these lands were once controlled by the Great Kingdom, but that they Peshwah have later been pushed into those lands. Grasslands would be less attractive to the Thonians anyway so it could have been sparesly populated except for along the coastal areas, and the Thonian Rand.
Quote:Brilliant observation Herr Viking! Since the Sufz seem to be a good fit for the FFC Nomads of Ten, one could easily suggest that they moved to the eastern Hak after the Afridhi invasions.
It would also be quite possible that the "Eastern Hak" could have expanded at this time from a relatively small strip of land occupied by the Bortai to its later size. Assuming the territory between the great kingdom and Blackmoor was largely abandoned by Thonian settlers (perhaps the farms had failed), it could have been claimed by the Sufz.
The Sufz certainly fit as Dervishes. They could be the renamed Ben-Hassock, althought hey dont seem as agressive as some of the other tribes. OTOH, I see some older fan speculations suggest that the Nomads of Ten are the Afridhi. We could still have a scenario here where the Ben Hassock are not the same as the Nomads of Ten.
If the Afridhi are the same as the Nomads of Ten it would mean that the Afridhi and the Duchy of Ten originally formed an alliance, which would be surprising, but not impossible.
Quote:Maybe. Will give it more thought but at the moment am still favoring the Sufz.
There is one key difficulty that has to be addressed, that being that the Nomads of Ten and the Horsemen of Peshwah are on different sides in this war. While that doesn't mean that they were actually fighting each other, it still has to be explained if we are going to say the Nomads were Peshwah.
The scenario above would help explain that problem. OTOH, Peshwah fighting eachother would not be unheard of.
A few more things to consider. Ken Shepro's character Peshwah na Shepro is associated with the Bortai. He is the Baron of Dragonia and loyal to Blackmoor. Dale Nelson is also said to have controlled "Nomads", though I am not sure which group.
Chuck Monson's comments could also help explain where the Afridhi came into the picture:
"As noted in the Judge's Guild publication... released at GenCon Lake Geneva Playboy Club so long ago (10th GenCon?)... I held a post in the Duchy of Ten, however frequently I was mashed by the hordes."
Quote:Definetly! I think the associations were more subconcious than deliberate, but it would be great to iron out a consistent narrative.
Yeah, its fun to think of it in terms of a narrative as you say
Also quite useful for gaming purposes.-Havard
Re: When Nomads become Peshwah - aldarron - 02-07-2012
Havard Wrote:Thanks! Are these mentioned in any particular context, such as involved in a specific battle etc?
Havard
No, it is just an entry in the monster list.
Havard Wrote:It seems to me that the Blackmoor map must have been revised at least X times in the 1970s:
1. Blackmoor expands from the Dungeon. Coot Invasions etc (1972)
2. Adventures in Lake Gloomy (1973)
3. When the PCs began getting their own holdings. Map expanded to the south to include the New Lands. (1974?)
4. Redrawing the map in preparation for the FFC. "I have decided that it would be advantageous to make some minor changes along the south and west borders to link it with the Judges Guild's Known World area...". Valley of the Ancients added.
The question is what happens to the Desert during these revisions:
a) It becomes squeezed into the middle, becoming effectively the Valley of the Ancients? Probably the Southern Desert was the location of the City of the Gods, originally.
b) Turned into the Plains of Hak
c) Shifted further away to the southwest, assumed to be somewhere beyond the map?
Havard
Yeah, the map grew with the game. Since the VOA is a desert, I assume "Desert" on the original map and VOA are one and the same.
Havard Wrote:As to the Eastern Hak, it may very well be that these lands were once controlled by the Great Kingdom, but that they Peshwah have later been pushed into those lands. Grasslands would be less attractive to the Thonians anyway so it could have been sparesly populated except for along the coastal areas, and the Thonian Rand.
Havard
I do think this is the best solution to the changes in the maps , and it makes for a good story.
Re: When Nomads become Peshwah - aldarron - 02-07-2012
Havard Wrote:Quote:Maybe. Will give it more thought but at the moment am still favoring the Sufz.
There is one key difficulty that has to be addressed, that being that the Nomads of Ten and the Horsemen of Peshwah are on different sides in this war. While that doesn't mean that they were actually fighting each other, it still has to be explained if we are going to say the Nomads were Peshwah.
The scenario above would help explain that problem. OTOH, Peshwah fighting eachother would not be unheard of.
A few more things to consider. Ken Shepro's character Peshwah na Shepro is associated with the Bortai. He is the Baron of Dragonia and loyal to Blackmoor. Dale Nelson is also said to have controlled "Nomads", though I am not sure which group.
Chuck Monson's comments could also help explain where the Afridhi came into the picture:
"As noted in the Judge's Guild publication... released at GenCon Lake Geneva Playboy Club so long ago (10th GenCon?)... I held a post in the Duchy of Ten, however frequently I was mashed by the hordes."
-Havard
There's one solution that will work, but requires a little inventiveness. Instead of trying to make the Ben Hassock to be really tribe X, they could be (or have been) a "lost" tribe. Suppose that the Hassocks as a tribe broke from the other Peshwa over the worship of Calerin. Perhaps Calerin won them over in the distant past and they have been at odds with the other Peswha since. Further, if they are identical to the Nomads of Ten, It would explain thier warlike behavior, why the Weasel might be welcome among them, and why they would have allied with Ten/ the Ran of Ah Foo.
Perhaps, these are the same nomads who attacked the new lands and got trounced by Svenny and co. Perhaps this was a devestating defeat for them in terms of body count. Whatever was left of the Ben Hassocks may have been butchered by the Afridhi during thier assault on Ten.
If the Ben Hassocks were a bunch of Calerin followers in southern/western Ten who have been basically wiped out, it explains, kinda, why they don't really show up now as part of the Peshwah.
BTW, I Iwonder if "Hak" is actually HAssocK, contracted. The Peswha are the "sons of Hak" and Ben Hassock literally means sons of hassock.
Re: When Nomads become Peshwah - Havard - 02-07-2012
Aldarron Wrote:There's one solution that will work, but requires a little inventiveness. Instead of trying to make the Ben Hassock to be really tribe X, they could be (or have been) a "lost" tribe. Suppose that the Hassocks as a tribe broke from the other Peshwa over the worship of Calerin. Perhaps Calerin won them over in the distant past and they have been at odds with the other Peswha since. Further, if they are identical to the Nomads of Ten, It would explain thier warlike behavior, why the Weasel might be welcome among them, and why they would have allied with Ten/ the Ran of Ah Foo.
I like the idea of a lost Peshwah Tribe. I guess this is sort of similar to the concept I used for my writeup of the Kurgans.
BTW, I have been trying to figure out when the Ran of Ah Foo gained control of the Duchy of Ten. Do you think he was in charge of that realm during the first Coot Invasions?
Quote:BTW, I Iwonder if "Hak" is actually HAssocK, contracted. The Peswha are the "sons of Hak" and Ben Hassock literally means sons of hassock.
You know what, I bet that is it! "Sons of Flame, Sons of Hak" is the title of Harley Stroh's short story set among the Peshwah.
The Weasel must have hidden among the Peshwah then, it doesnt so much matter which Tribe. The Peshwah would have been much less friendly towards Blackmoor prior to Uther's Rebellion. They have no love for Thonians in general. Peshwah na Shepro's efforts have softened this as well.
-Havard
Re: When Nomads become Peshwah - aldarron - 02-07-2012
Havard Wrote:BTW, I have been trying to figure out when the Ran of Ah Foo gained control of the Duchy of Ten. Do you think he was in charge of that realm during the first Coot Invasions?
[-Havard
Think so. My best guess is around 985 (see timeline). I think Foo bribed Duke Whitehead for Ten's autonomy and I beleive that occured before the invasion. Otherwise, DotP should have been involved in the invasion, since Ten was involved and Ten had been part of the DoTP.
Re: When Nomads become Peshwah - Havard - 02-08-2012
Aldarron Wrote:Think so. My best guess is around 985 (see timeline). I think Foo bribed Duke Whitehead for Ten's autonomy and I beleive that occured before the invasion. Otherwise, DotP should have been involved in the invasion, since Ten was involved and Ten had been part of the DoTP.
Makes sense. Duke Whitehead may also have been quite easy to convince/bribe since he had just suffered from the rampage of Marfeldt through the Duchy of the Peaks the year before.
But the Duchy of Ten were allied to the Egg of Coot at this time, so this must all have been prior to the split between the Egg and Ran.
-Havard