Noble Houses of Blackmoor (Updated)

[aldarron]

Oh, found another one! At least I think this counts,

In Greg's Williamsfort Gazetteer:

"Neg is the eldest surviving son of the Baron Carrion, the former Baron of
Williamsfort, still residing in the Kingdom of Blackmoor. His family had the
misfortune of backing the Thonians during Blackmoor’s War of Independence,
which many refer to as the Thonian Invasion. Many of the Carrion family died
fighting for the Thonian Empire during the war. "

[Yaztromo]

Episode 17 features a Thonian man called Durces. We don't get many detail about his life and background, but we happen to know that

Durces is a short man. Brown hair that was usually pulled back in a pony tail. He was wearing a pouch around his neck in which he had a lock of his wife’s and daughter’s hair. The pouch had his family crest stitched on the front, a yellow shield with three red swords crossed on the front.

We don't even get Durces' surname, unfortunately, but we get a family crest: a yellow shield with three red swords crossed on the front. Does this crest sound familiar to anybody? It doesn't ring any bell to me.
Anyway, I wouldn't expect family crests to be awarded to families that are not noble families, at least to some extent.

[aldarron]

Working on some timeline stuff and its been forcing me to think about Baron Jenkins and Fant.

Here we have them listed as houses, but there are a couple problems doing that.

The obvious one is that in other cases, we use the baron's first name - for example, Baron Alvarez, Baron Calvin and so on. We never say Baron Andahar.

So theoretically, it should be Baron Jenkins of house x and Baron Fant of house x, etc.

Here is the other thing. Jenkins was, from the start, in control of Glendower and the surrounding land.

If you look at DA1, the description of the Baron of Glendower really sounds a lot like Duane Jenkins and his character. There is even the bit about being bitten by the undead (a lycanthrope in DA1, but a vampire in the original campaign).

DA1 clearly has a lot of name changes, and they all do have a kind of similar style, which probably means they were done by David Ritchie or somebody at TSR. I think "Bascom Ungulian" was an editorial change to Jenkins. The other thing to note is that the Ungulian family has had control of Glendower for some time.

In any case "Jenkins" makes more sense to me as a first name, and that would apparently make him an Ungulian - presumably the father of Bascom.

Same reasoning applies to Fant.

When the elves take over Blackmoor castle after the second Coot invasion and the invaders are defeated, CoTT 4 #6 says Fant "has returned to Bramwald".

So apparently Baron Fant was from Bramwald. Sometime not long after his return there he becomes the Vampire Sir Fang.

The Baron of Bramwald in DA1 is given as Bram Tagus. So I think it makes sense to suppose that Baron Fant was also a Tagus.

Something to consider anyway.

[Yaztromo]

Good points, although keeping all the pieces together may be not the easiest puzzle to solve.

[Havard]

Working on some timeline stuff and its been forcing me to think about Baron Jenkins and Fant.

Here we have them listed as houses, but there are a couple problems doing that.

The obvious one is that in other cases, we use the baron's first name - for example, Baron Alvarez, Baron Calvin and so on. We never say Baron Andahar.

So theoretically, it should be Baron Jenkins of house x and Baron Fant of house x, etc.

Always interesting to hear fresh perspectives from you Aldarron!

I think that looking at RW comparisons, there are conventions where you would adress a noble with Title+First Name and Title + Family Name. I believe you would always adress a noble directly with Title+First Name, as opposed to commoners who would be adressed as Mister + Last Name. This may be different in non-English cultures.

Here is the other thing. Jenkins was, from the start, in control of Glendower and the surrounding land.

If you look at DA1, the description of the Baron of Glendower really sounds a lot like Duane Jenkins and his character. There is even the bit about being bitten by the undead (a lycanthrope in DA1, but a vampire in the original campaign).

DA1 clearly has a lot of name changes, and they all do have a kind of similar style, which probably means they were done by David Ritchie or somebody at TSR. I think "Bascom Ungulian" was an editorial change to Jenkins. The other thing to note is that the Ungulian family has had control of Glendower for some time.

In any case "Jenkins" makes more sense to me as a first name, and that would apparently make him an Ungulian - presumably the father of Bascom.

I think you are right. The FFC does tell us that Jenkins' family gets holdings at Glendower and the similarities between Ungulian and Jenkins are interesting. I think there could be several reasons why they changed both the name and nature of the lord of this realm. Also not sure if that decision was Rithie's, Arneson's or TSR's. Still I do prefer having them as two separate characters given the time that has passed between the FFC and the DA modules. Its a little weird if the father became a Vampire and the son became a Werewolf, but other than that I don't see why the father and son theory could not work. For some reason I assumed that Sir Jenkins was discredited and ousted or killed during the Great Vampire Hunt (even though Fant was the main target of that hunt).

Same reasoning applies to Fant.

When the elves take over Blackmoor castle after the second Coot invasion and the invaders are defeated, CoTT 4 #6 says Fant "has returned to Bramwald".

So apparently Baron Fant was from Bramwald. Sometime not long after his return there he becomes the Vampire Sir Fang.

The Baron of Bramwald in DA1 is given as Bram Tagus. So I think it makes sense to suppose that Baron Fant was also a Tagus.

Something to consider anyway.

This is interesting! I don't have access to CoTT 4 #6, so I'm not sure what the context of that would have been? Fant became Baron of Blackmoor after the First Coot Invasion during which "The Weasel" had turned traitor and had disappeared afterwards. It is certainly possible that he could have come out of Bramwald. I am not sure how old Bramwald is, but my impression is that both Bramwald and Erak predate the baronies of the "New Lands" (established by Uther's allies) and may have been part of the first era of Thonian Settlements in The North.

-Havard

[Havard]

Discussion of the Lands of Erak split into a separate thread here.


-Havard

[aldarron]

Some more to consider:

"From Lyliania's diaries, Jezyria also learned of
her engagement to Laurent Kervall, a noble who
assisted her father at court" MMRPG - Lord Braveen is the father mentioned and that's Blackmoor court so Kervall must be a lesser house in service to Braveen.

There is also Baron Von Hercebeiner from David Megarry's character sheet. Von was a Blackmoor baron who died exploring the New Lands (Outdoor Survival board) in late 1972. Von had two sons who died the same way, all in quick succession.

[Havard]

Some more to consider:

"From Lyliania's diaries, Jezyria also learned of
her engagement to Laurent Kervall, a noble who
assisted her father at court" MMRPG - Lord Braveen is the father mentioned and that's Blackmoor court so Kervall must be a lesser house in service to Braveen.

There is also Baron Von Hercebeiner from David Megarry's character sheet. Von was a Blackmoor baron who died exploring the New Lands (Outdoor Survival board) in late 1972. Von had two sons who died the same way, all in quick succession.

Great additions!

Is Hercebeiner's first name actually Von? Von means "of" in German so German noble names are typically formed by "First Name" von" "Family name". Thanks for sharing this story about Megarry's characters though (or were they played by someone else)?

-Havard

[aldarron]

Is Hercebeiner's first name actually Von? Von means "of" in German so German noble names are typically formed by "First Name" von" "Family name". Thanks for sharing this story about Megarry's characters though (or were they played by someone else)?

-Havard

Megarry played them and I think all three were created in a single session according to David.

Von was probably not intended to be a first name, but I figure it might as well serve as one. Von is used as a first name here in the US sometimes and the other two Hercebeiner's are just called "Hero Herk" and "the Bastard Herk" . They are the last characters on the first sheet. On second sheet, David also has "Captain of Herc. Guards" and "Herc. Administrator"

From that it seems Hercebeiner could and did stand on its own with "Von" so it doesn't conflict to see it as a first name. It also seems that the Hercebeiner family was somewhat important to Megarry. David din't have any suggestions about what they might have been barons of, but I would guess it should be somewhere in the south not too far from the New Lands. I'd suggest Southport but that causes problems with the TSR material I think.

[aldarron]

oof. I just found a whole slew more house names hiding in plain sight.  In the back of The Wizards Cabal book there are a couple of fascinating appendicies and on pages 122-3 there is a section on "The Lost Houses" wherein can be found a list of lost noble houses that may or may not be extinct.  Here they are:
  
Soderlen
Osborg
Mesina
Berstad
Aris
Kordgard
Tybir
Khores