Wizards Cabal

[Havard]

Cross-posted to my blog:

Wizards Cabal
The Wizards Cabal is somewhat problematic in Blackmoor canon, because it appeared in one form in the DA modules and was completely rewamped in the D20 line. The question then becomes, which version should I use for my campaign?



The DA Modules
The first appearance of the Wizards Cabal is in the module DA1 Adventures in Blackmoor. In this version, the Wizards Cabal is a secret society for Magic Users, lead by Tamis Azkanikin. They have set in motion a plot to kidnap King Uther, which is the main plot of the module.

The D20 Line
In the D20 line, the Wizards Cabal is not a secret society. Rather, they are an official organization of Wizards founded by Skelfer Ard. It is responsible of administering and training arcane spellcasters in Blackmoor and also in charge of persecuting Sorcerers and other unauthorized spellcasters.

One the one hand, it is not unlikely that the Wizards Cabal was changed with the new edition to better integrate the concept of Wizards and Sorcerers being two different types of arcane spellcasters. On the other hand it is worth examining the adventure potential this concept has. Sorcerers are a 3E concept, but earlier editons also had the concept of Wild Magic, which is pretty much how 3E Sorcerers are presented in Blackmoor.

Arneson Purists will scoff at this and say that one should ignore the D20 products, but I have never been one to reject ideas because of where they came from. To be honest I rather like the idea of an official organization for mages in Blackmoor. Although I no longer play 3E, I think viewing what those books refer to as Sorcerers, as Practitioners of Wild Magic, works for any edition. Interestingly, the D20 Blackmoor books also have a secret underground organization for such mages, called the Eldrich Underground. It seems to me, that the Eldritch Underground can easily fill the function that the original Wizards Cabal. This has already for the most part been done with the Underground being responsible for the Vestfold Revolt. This way we can still have the old Wizards Cabal, and have an official club for Magic Users as well?

What is the Wizards Cabal like in your Blackmoor?




-Havard

[aldarron]

Arneson Purists will scoff at this and say that one should ignore the D20 products, but I have never been one to reject ideas because of where they came from. To be honest I rather like the idea of an official organization for mages in Blackmoor. Although I no longer play 3E, I think viewing what those books refer to as Sorcerers, as Practitioners of Wild Magic, works for any edition. Interestingly, the D20 Blackmoor books also have a secret underground organization for such mages, called the Eldrich Underground. It seems to me, that the Eldritch Underground can easily fill the function that the original Wizards Cabal. This has already for the most part been done with the Underground being responsible for the Vestfold Revolt. This way we can still have the old Wizards Cabal, and have an official club for Magic Users as well?

What is the Wizards Cabal like in your Blackmoor?


-Havard

Just posted a reply on your blog. Discuss here if you like?

[Havard]

Just posted a reply on your blog. Discuss here if you like?

Thanks for commenting Dan! Let's see...

Actually, I'm inclined to believe Arneson had an order of magnitude more influence over the d20 stuff than the TSR material. I'm quite convinced Ritchie et al. could and did do anything they liked with whatever notes and info Arneson gave them, and created a good deal of that material on thier own. The TSR line is a fair source for character info but is highly suspect in my eyes for almost anything else.

As mentioned elsewhere I suspect your scepticism towards the DA modules is exaggerated, but that doesnt really affect the topic at hand.

As such, anytime the d20 line contradicts the TSR line, I'd consider d20 to be the corrected version. FFC trumps it all of course....

I think the problem with this model is that it is too simple if you are trying to figure out what is Arneson's material. In some cases, the D20 line may have attempted to fix things Arneson didnt like in the DA modules (although DA4 is the only one he has expressed some disatisfaction with), but in many other cases the D20 additions are obvious results of ZGG attempting to accomodate new options in the D20 system.

OTOH, my objective is not to find out what whats true Arneson, but what I think will work well for a game

But not to digress too far off topic, I see the cabal in my Age of Id SWA campaign as being smaller, less powerful, and with a less colorful history, but otherwise mostly as presented in the Wizards Cabal book. They don't hunt down "sorcerors" (that strangely schizophrenic 3e concept makes no sense in Dragons at Dawn), but they are very actively interested in understanding and guarding the unusually strong magics associated with Blackmoor, and are thus closely allied with the elves. That they might have detractors and defectors - the Eldritch Underground (led by Pissaic perhaps?)- makes perfect sense.

Interesting ideas, but they don't work too well with the established timeline without some modification. The Wizards Cabal is only a couple of centuries old, while the incident with the Temple of Id happened 500 years ago. Pissaic ruled Blackmoor a century after that again.

As to some Wizards who might be involved with these organizations, a few of these may appear on my blog in the coming days

-Havard

[sheridan]

(Indulge me a bit - I don't have any of the books in front of me right this second.)

A possibility?...

In the year 1000 (the time of DA1), some Magic Users, as they were then called, who learned to cast spells without the need of spellbooks, form a secret society called the Wizard's Cabal to oppose Uther and the suppression of natural-born Magic Users. Sometime between 1000 and 1030 (the time of 3.5 Blackmoor), the learned Magic Users start referring to themselves as Wizards and organize to destroy the underground Wizard's Cabal, eventually taking on that group's name and the mission of policing the use of magic in Blackmoor.

The original Wizard's Cabal, consisting of natural-born spellcasters who now refer to themselves as Sorcerers, go further underground and take on the name Eldritch Underground.

[Havard]

(Indulge me a bit - I don't have any of the books in front of me right this second.)

A possibility?...

In the year 1000 (the time of DA1), some Magic Users, as they were then called, who learned to cast spells without the need of spellbooks, form a secret society called the Wizard's Cabal to oppose Uther and the suppression of natural-born Magic Users. Sometime between 1000 and 1030 (the time of 3.5 Blackmoor), the learned Magic Users start referring to themselves as Wizards and organize to destroy the underground Wizard's Cabal, eventually taking on that group's name and the mission of policing the use of magic in Blackmoor.

The original Wizard's Cabal, consisting of natural-born spellcasters who now refer to themselves as Sorcerers, go further underground and take on the name Eldritch Underground.

Interesting. The DA modules however were set in 1025, not 1030. 5 years might be a bit short a time for this change, but then the D20 line does not seem to be based on the assumption that the DA module events have actually occured.

My idea is actually that the Cabal started out as a good organization, but that it is slowly being corrupted. Unless the PCs can do something about it, the Cabal will end up becoming as described in DA1.

-Havard

[aldarron]

As mentioned elsewhere I suspect your scepticism towards the DA modules is exaggerated, but that doesnt really affect the topic at hand. -Havard

I know. I think we may come to some kind of relative consensus on this eventually but we really need to chat with Deborah Ritchie about it one of these days.

For me these two little slips by Arneson are very telling:
Re: City of the Gods
« Result #48 on Dec 19, 2008, 9:36pm »
________________________________________
Well he didn't consult me a lot. Ae least it was beter than Duchy Of Tehn (See the Zeigisit one for a better treatment there.)

Re: David J Ritchie
« Result #25 on Sept 30, 2008, 9:11pm »
________________________________________
He had copies of my books, with some notes. And we did talk a couple of times.

Dave Arneson
"Dark Lord of Gaming"

But, not wanting to derail the thread...

[aldarron]

As such, anytime the d20 line contradicts the TSR line, I'd consider d20 to be the corrected version. FFC trumps it all of course....

I think the problem with this model is that it is too simple if you are trying to figure out what is Arneson's material. In some cases, the D20 line may have attempted to fix things Arneson didnt like in the DA modules (although DA4 is the only one he has expressed some disatisfaction with), but in many other cases the D20 additions are obvious results of ZGG attempting to accomodate new options in the D20 system.

OTOH, my objective is not to find out what whats true Arneson, but what I think will work well for a game

Yep, agreed and understood. I think the d20 line does both accomodate and react to the DA line and is also very much an attempt to appeal to a certain market, so a lot of content is sales driven. So I don't treat any of it as "cannon" but as source material when not contradictory to the letter or spirit of the FFC Blackmoor. But I know that your harmonizing project has a different goal.

But not to digress too far off topic, I see the cabal in my Age of Id SWA campaign as being smaller, less powerful, and with a less colorful history, but otherwise mostly as presented in the Wizards Cabal book. They don't hunt down "sorcerors" (that strangely schizophrenic 3e concept makes no sense in Dragons at Dawn), but they are very actively interested in understanding and guarding the unusually strong magics associated with Blackmoor, and are thus closely allied with the elves. That they might have detractors and defectors - the Eldritch Underground (led by Pissaic perhaps?)- makes perfect sense.

Interesting ideas, but they don't work too well with the established timeline without some modification. The Wizards Cabal is only a couple of centuries old, while the incident with the Temple of Id happened 500 years ago. Pissaic ruled Blackmoor a century after that again.

As to some Wizards who might be involved with these organizations, a few of these may appear on my blog in the coming days

-Havard
-Havard

Ah, I'll have to reread that WC history. Still, I'm thinking some sort of Cabal or guild should exist from at least the time of Robert I.

Generally though, I think your ideas about the Cabal make sense. Might be interesting to see what Dustin's take on it is...

[Havard]

Yep, agreed and understood. I think the d20 line does both accomodate and react to the DA line and is also very much an attempt to appeal to a certain market, so a lot of content is sales driven. So I don't treat any of it as "cannon" but as source material when not contradictory to the letter or spirit of the FFC Blackmoor. But I know that your harmonizing project has a different goal.

It is true that my end goal is something different, but as a starting point, I consider everything published for Blackmoor as canon. I also put a great value to the stories and memories of Original Players such as Greg. In general all of this trumps any fan material that may exist out there IMO.

Ah, I'll have to reread that WC history. Still, I'm thinking some sort of Cabal or guild should exist from at least the time of Robert I.

A wizard's guild might easily predate the Wizards Cabal. Most likely it would have been something organized out of Thonia with a few members scattered throughout the North.

Generally though, I think your ideas about the Cabal make sense. Might be interesting to see what Dustin's take on it is...

Definately


-Havard