Fall of the Black Queen

[aldarron]

Holy Coot! just read Havards Piazza post http://www.thepiazza.org.uk/bb/viewtopi ... =24&t=3328

and dang if it isn't a perfect fit. "temple complex devoted to the Dark Lords of the Egg of Coot"

The Dark Lords are the "monsters of the Id"

whom the Egg of Coot - the Baron made immortal by the Id - serves.

I know some would read the lords as servants of coot, but the Coot is never described as having dark lord servants and I think it really reads as the Lords are the gods whom the coot serves, it makes more sense that way.

[Havard]

Ah, I see the parameters you are working under.

Okay, how about this. The Elves, being generally aloof from human affairs (see AiF) don't care one whit about the growing cult of Id, but when approached by a delegation from Baron X of Blackmoor, seeking an alliance with the Elves to wipe out the Id, Uhlmar readily agrees, both because he looks forward to a good war, and because he is more favorably disposed towards humans than many elves. Ceridrone counsels her father against it, warning that humans cannot be trusted.

I like this! I was wondering about whether the elves would see the Cult of Id as "human affairs", but I guess most likely that the Cultists would be human...

Unbeknown to the Elves, Baron X has himself secretly converted to the cult of the Id, and plans the "attack" as a means to draw the elves into an ambush and destroy them, leaving the Baron as the uncontested master of the north.

That is a pretty ingenious plan! I am beginning to warm up to this idea of the Baron being a follower of the Temple of Id.

The trap is sprung, but the elves (perhaps being warned at the last minute?) are a far more formidibal foe than the Baron realizes, and though they suffer tremendous losses, including the beloved Master Elf Aquassiru - Ceridrone's husband, the elves are victorious. Also killed in the battle are Baron X and all the Id cultists.

I am a little uncertain of Ceridrone being married to Aquassiru, but I do like the idea of her husband being killed as a result of the human treason.

Uhlmar's rashness and trust of humans has cost the elves very dearly - thus prompting Ceridrone's rebellion.

(basically here, I'm trying to give a reasonable explanation behind your idea of human treachery at the battle of the temple)

Yeah, that works. My original idea was just that the humans figured it was better the elves died protecting them, than the humans fighting for their own cause, but your take does make the treson run deeper, which I like.

Gygax Drow story - from fiend Folio
"Ages past, when the elvenfolk were but new to the face of the earth, their number was torn by discord and those of better disposition
drove from them those of the elves who were selfish and cruel. However constant warfare between the two divisions of elven kind
continued, with the goodly ones ever victorious, until those of dark nature were forced to withdraw from the lands under the skies and seek safety in the realm of the underworld."

Ah, okay. Thanks! The Westryn have some shared traits with the Drow, but I see them not as evil, but simply deeply suspicious and bearing a long lasting grudge. The main similarity would be that the split between the races ocurred as a result of the first encounters between the elves and the outer world.

Havard

[Havard]

Holy Coot! just read Havards Piazza post http://www.thepiazza.org.uk/bb/viewtopi ... =24&t=3328

and dang if it isn't a perfect fit. "temple complex devoted to the Dark Lords of the Egg of Coot"

The Dark Lords are the "monsters of the Id"

whom the Egg of Coot - the Baron made immortal by the Id - serves.

I know some would read the lords as servants of coot, but the Coot is never described as having dark lord servants and I think it really reads as the Lords are the gods whom the coot serves, it makes more sense that way.

I am not sure that I would like to make a definite statement about the nature of the Egg of Coot IMC, but the connection between the Egg and the Temple of Id are interesting. I do like the idea of having an Id-worshipping Baron named Regscott there. Regardless of the exact connection, it seems clear that the Egg of Coot was somehow brought into this world by the actions of the Temple of Id. I am leaving open here the possibility that the Egg could be older, but that it was awakened by the Cultists of Id, perhaps working with some of the underwater races.

My other idea about the Temple of Id is that they were the original posessor of the Well of Souls. While the Temple was destroyed by the Elves, the Well of Souls was moved to a hidden location, only to be discovered by the Afridhi centuries later. I think it was Cthulhudrew who first suggested that the Well of Souls was created by Thanatos explaining a reference about an artifact created by Thanatos which had been destroyed in the Blackmoor era, mentioned in Wrath of the Immortals. Zugzul would not have created something like the Well of Souls, but being a power-hungry God, he thinks this artifact can be used to secure his people taking over the world.

I also wanted to include a reference to the Sun Gem of the Temple of Id, being an artifact created by Sollus and used by the elves to destroy the temple.

More later

Havard

[aldarron]

Cool I was a little uncertain of Ceridrone being married to Aquassiru too, but I agree that whoeer the husband, having him die at the battle fits the story well.

Regarding Thanatos and so forth, I'm not so interested in those tie ins but I think it does work well for your project, and I definetly see leaving the complete story or origens of the egg a mystery, even in my version above I'd say there is more to the egg than the psyche of the old baron. It does seem to me though, both because of the "lords" statement and the connection to the forbidden planet movie that the powers behind the temple are several, related and intertwined. So not just Thanatos or a single aspected god, in your scheme but Thanatos and company somehow. I don't know Mystaran mythology so that's about all I can contribute.

[aldarron]

Here's an interesting bit on the coot subject, in the FFC section on Svenny it says "The Dark Lord of the Egg of Coot has said that he will make a prince of his devilish realm any that would deliver him into his hands (?)."

So coot is a "Dark Lord" himself - perhaps elevated to that position by other Dark Lords, for his service to the Id.

As an aside - FFC cosmology seems to be divided between "Dark Lords" and "Great Gods" - mentioned in the Marfeldt section.

[Havard]

Here's an interesting bit on the coot subject, in the FFC section on Svenny it says "The Dark Lord of the Egg of Coot has said that he will make a prince of his devilish realm any that would deliver him into his hands (?)."

So coot is a "Dark Lord" himself - perhaps elevated to that position by other Dark Lords, for his service to the Id.

As an aside - FFC cosmology seems to be divided between "Dark Lords" and "Great Gods" - mentioned in the Marfeldt section.

The Egg is certainly much more than a man. In AD&D terms, I would probably make him equal to a Demi-God. Either that, or whatever Cthulhu is in Deities and Demigods....

Havard

[aldarron]

I just noticed - there are cultists of Id on level 9 of ZGG's Blackmoor Dungeon

[Havard]

I just noticed - there are cultists of Id on level 9 of ZGG's Blackmoor Dungeon

I did notice that!

It seems like they are people who are trying to revive the cult. However, IMO this strengthens your theory that Id-sympathizers once controlled Blackmoor.

The premise of the Blackmoor Dungeon seems to be that it reflects the various rulers/eras of the region so a level with Id sympathizers, as well as Greg's mentioning of the tunnel leading from the Temple of Id to Level 5 of the Blackmoor Dungeon do suggest that this could be the case.

-Havard