Making sense of the Mage Wars (Again)

[Havard]

I think there is another thread (maybe the one on mage wars borders) where we dig in a bit. I ran a mage war era campaign for a couple years and had the situation pretty well worked out for that at least. Per canon there were 4 and then 3 factions. Beside Raddan, who controlled Blackmoor there was Xavien the Grey (SP) who controlled Maus but eventually gets conquered by Goss, and in the OD&D material we have the Red Wizard's Coven who control the land of Coot, and we also have Vadeley's from somewhere, but seem to be good candidates for being from Starport/Duchy of the Peaks.

What bothers me is that when Raddan is in charge we really have no idea what is going on at Blackmoor Castle. Raddan seems to be somewhere else (Vestfold perhaps).

This thread?

-Havard

[aldarron]

From MMRPG episode 47 The Night of Goss:

Raddan Goss, a student of the teachings of Kargas Dolunt, had learned how to increase the effectiveness of Dolunt’s theories of land-magic transfers and had discovered how to increase one’s self to an almost divine state of being.

After years of exhaustive study he finally decided that more land was necessary for his experimentation and violently expelled a neighboring sorcerer from his lands. That sorcerer was allied with a powerful woman named Vadaley who brought quick retribution to one of Raddan’s own students situated near her lands.
This conflict began the Mage Wars erupted into a massive conflict for dominance of the lands of the North and their magical abilities.

Raddan Goss' tomb is located beneath the mountains of the Ash Hills. This doesn't necessarily mean that his semi-autonomous barony was there, but it may be an indication.

The ash hills would be an interesting choice for a home base, but I think as a semi autonomous barony, there is the problem of the Peshwah. The Ash Hills are in "Indian Country" to borrow a phrase. Raddan Goss may have had a seclusium there but I think more than that unlikely. Anybody know if that "semi-autonomous barony" business is an exact quote?

I still wonder if "the Tower of Booh" might not somehow be related to Raddan.

In anycase that is a cool quote on the start of the mage wars. I think there is an interesting way to tie this in with The Gnome Cache, If you happened to read my post https://boggswood.blogspot.com/2020/07/t...ap-of.html I tied the revolt there to the Mage Wars as most logical.

I can easily see a scenerio where the rebel leading the revolt in Blackmoor is both a wizard and a friend of the Vadaley's. So the territory Raddan takes over is Blackmoor - which he certainly does have control over at some point, which would certainly be perceived as a threat by the Vadaley's.

[Yaztromo]

Anybody know if that "semi-autonomous barony" business is an exact quote?

The Wizards' Cabal, page 5:

It was a half-elven (Cumasti) wizard named Raddan Goss who provided the spark that would ignite this conflict into a true war. Stymied in his quest to expand his territory, he wrested completed control of his lands from the local government, proclaiming himself Wizard King of what had been a semi-autonomous barony. Leading their armies into the field, he assaulted the territory of a neighboring wizard, becoming the first mage to use overt violence in this struggle for eldritch territory. Striking with surprise and overwhelm- ing mystical force, he slew the small cadre of wizards who had claimed the neighboring lands and claimed them as his own.

[aldarron]

Thanks Yaz, that's interesting and would seem to narrow the choices. What places make sense that might reasonably be considered semi-autonomous baronies at the start of the Mage Wars? Maus and Starport seem off the table.

Glendour is close, but too close and probably too small at this time to be semi-autonoumous.

Maybe Bramwald, although I also wonder if Bramwald is really semi-autonomous at this time?

or Maybe Boggy Bottom or Pim or Loch Gloomen - the Dismal swamp (Great Swamp of Mil) area could easily be semi-autonomous and it is close to the Ash hills so that might have been all part of the same territory. It would also explain why Raddan needed more land. There is only so much land in the swamp. The drawback is Raddan would have to march through Vestfold and Booh to get to Blackmoor Castle, but that's maybe not such a big deal.

Another point in favor of Raddan's semi autonomous barony being the Dismal swam area is that we have him in control of it later. So if he starts with the swamp and then conquerors Blackmoor we end up with all four factions in place.

What do you all think?

[Yaztromo]

Maybe the whole Blackmoor is the semi-autonomous barony mentioned. At the time, after all, Blackmoor is still a (far away) barony of the Thonian empire and not yet an independent kingdom.

[Havard]

Thanks Yaz, that's interesting and would seem to narrow the choices. What places make sense that might reasonably be considered semi-autonomous baronies at the start of the Mage Wars? Maus and Starport seem off the table.

Glendour is close, but too close and probably too small at this time to be semi-autonoumous.

Maybe Bramwald, although I also wonder if Bramwald is really semi-autonomous at this time?

or Maybe Boggy Bottom or Pim or Loch Gloomen - the Dismal swamp (Great Swamp of Mil) area could easily be semi-autonomous and it is close to the Ash hills so that might have been all part of the same territory. It would also explain why Raddan needed more land. There is only so much land in the swamp. The drawback is Raddan would have to march through Vestfold and Booh to get to Blackmoor Castle, but that's maybe not such a big deal.

Another point in favor of Raddan's semi autonomous barony being the Dismal swam area is that we have him in control of it later. So if he starts with the swamp and then conquerors Blackmoor we end up with all four factions in place.

What do you all think?

Glendover most likely did not exist during the Mage Wars. It was established by Jenkins during Fant's reign. Many of the other holds were also still at this time just wilderness.

Maybe the whole Blackmoor is the semi-autonomous barony mentioned. At the time, after all, Blackmoor is still a (far away) barony of the Thonian empire and not yet an independent kingdom.

I think this fits as well as anything else.

So much of the information about the Mage Wars is annoyingly vague. The idea that Blackmoor (the Castle and surrounding hold) is not a major player at the time makes no sense to me. So this is why it seemed natural to assume that Raddam's holding was indeed Blackmoor.

See my overview from the other thread:

From my Mage Wars timeline I have the following factions from ca 820:

• Raddan Goss
  
• Vadaley Family
  
• "Two Others"
  
• Bystanders
  
• Skelfer Ard (Not yet part of the wars)

Although we have little information on where these realms may be, I have made the following assumptions:

• Raddan Goss == Blackmoor
  
• Vadaley Family == Duchy of the Peaks
  
• "Two Others" == Erak, Maus
  
• Bystanders == Bramwald, Vestfold, Archlis
  
• Skelfer == Archlis

BLACKMOOR:
Although I havent found any canonical evidence specifically stating this, I do find the idea that Raddan Goss controlled Blackmoor to be quite likely. Not only does this retain Blackmoor as the most important location of the setting through its history, but perhaps the source of Raddan's power could also be the magical rocks below Blackmoor mentioned in earlier sources. I also speculated in the past, that Goss could be identical to one of the more tyrannical rulers from the FFC (Castle history section).

DUCHY OF THE PEAKS:
The Vadaley Realm is described as "many leagues away". We do know that the Duchy of the Peaks was founded by mages, so it seems likely that they would be part in the war. Also, the fact that Vestfold becomes "neutral ground" made it likely to think that Vestfold would be between the two.

MAUS
Although I didn't know it at the time, the Maus Wizard has later been identified as Xavier the Grey Mage.

ERAK
No particular reason for this, but Erak was probably around at the time.

BRAMWALD
As with Erak above. Also, Bramwald seems to have a long tradition of staying out of conflicts in the North, so this would likely place them among the bystanders.

VESTFOLD
As mentioned above, Vestfold was considered neutral ground.

ARCHLIS
Archlis was the home of Skelfer. Skelfer only gets involved once Archlis is destroyed by the Vadaley.


OTHER PARTS OF THE NORTH

• DUCHY OF TEN: This realm is not founded until Year 925, Area previously controlled by Peaks.
  
• THE LAKES (Gloomy, Midges, etc): Wilderness. Thonia expands to Misauga in 925.
  
• THE NEW LANDS OF BLACKMOOR (Dragonia, Ramshead, Fairfield, Bosero): These were settled during the FFC era.
  
• BLACKMOOR OUTLANDS (Fel, Dukane): Not yet settled.
  
• BLACKMOOR HEARTLANDS (Glendover, Coot's Watch, Newgate, Jackport, Williamsfort, Kenville): some of these were surely established later. The rest would likely not have been prominent IMO. Probably under the control of Blackmoor (Goss) or others.

My impression is that the elves, dwarves and halflings mostly stayed out of the Mage Wars and that this was primarily a conflict between Human Mages.

GEOGRAPHICAL DIFFERENCES
It is my theory that the Sinking Lands started appearing when the Egg of Coot rose from the waters. Since that happened after the Mage Wars, it means the land has not begun to sink yet, and the Black Sea is not yet joined with the North Sea. By this assumption, the Elven Forest (Redwood) is much larger at this point and the Black Sea is smaller.

Indeed, it is worth taking into account that the world of Blackmoor was very different during the Mage Wars. The Black Sea was not yet connected to the North Sea. Most modern settlements have not yet been established. Certainly other settlements could have been around at the time and destroyed and lost during the war or the following cataclysm when the Egg arrived.


The reference to the tomb of Raddam from the MMRPG is interesting, but he could easily have been buried away from his stronghold, especially if that was indeed Blackmoor.

It could also have some importance to help us find out what Raddan was doing before he came to power in Blackmoor. In my timeline I have him become ruler in 815. Soon after he destroys "a handful of mages ruling neighbouring lands" (source: The Wizards Cabal) which gets him into confict with the Vadaley Clan. It is unknown what mages he destroyed and what lands these may have controlled.

Another matter is that the elves are more or less ignored by The Wizards Cabal. The split between the Cumasti and the Westryn has most likely occurred in the past (I connect it to the destruction of the Temple of Id), but the Redwood is still a massive woodland at this time covering much of the North. This realm is only reduced by the Egg of Coot (again).

-Havard

[aldarron]

I see what you both are saying, but lets look at this closely:

The Set up:
Campaign Sourcebook page 69:

Greedy, power-mad sorcerers and wizards populated the North. As their numbers grew, they hatched plans to dominate Blackmoor and subjugate all within their grasp — an endeavor that quickly succeeded. One by one, human cities and frontier settlements fell under the mages’
power. The dwarves fled to the safety of their underground dwellings. The elves blended into their forests. The halflings tried to stay out from underfoot, and the Docrae were enslaved. When the conquest was finished, the entire area was under the magical warlords’ direct and brutal
control. These mages soon wished to expand their borders at the expense of each other and came to despise their neighboring brethren. Their hatred grew to the point where they turned on each other and openly battled for ultimate control of the land and its wild magic. Thus began the
Mage Wars.

From MMRPG episode 47 The Night of Goss:

Raddan Goss, a student of the teachings of Kargas Dolunt, had learned how to increase the effectiveness of Dolunt’s theories of land-magic transfers and had discovered how to increase one’s self to an almost divine state of being.

After years of exhaustive study he finally decided that more land was necessary for his experimentation and violently expelled a neighboring sorcerer from his lands. That sorcerer was allied with a powerful woman named Vadaley who brought quick retribution to one of Raddan’s own students situated near her lands. This conflict began the Mage Wars erupted into a massive conflict for dominance of the lands of the North and their magical abilities.

The Wizards Cabal p 5.

Soon casters began claiming populated areas as well. They did not demand the right to rule, nor attempt to eliminate local governments, at least not yet... As transgressions grew more and more frequent, due to the loss of available land and the fact that every mage’s territory now abutted several others, the retribution grew ever more vicious as well. Finally, that retribution turned violent. Mages engaged in spell-duels, tossing globes of fire and bolts of lightning while swooping through the air over populated areas. Further, these duels were so quick and vicious, when the militia finally arrived to put an end to the carnage, they found nothing but burned-out husks of villages, with no signs of those who had destroyed them.
It was a half-elven (Cumasti) wizard named Raddan Goss who provided the spark that would ignite this conflict into a true war. Stymied in his quest to expand his territory, he wrested complete control of his lands from the local government, proclaiming himself Wizard King of what had
been a semi-autonomous barony. Leading their armies into the field, he assaulted the territory of a neighboring wizard, becoming the first mage to use overt violence in this struggle for eldritch territory. Striking with surprise and overwhelming mystical force, he slew the small cadre of wizards who had claimed the neighboring lands and claimed them as his own. One of those who fell to his assault, however, was a dear
friend of Surrinya Vadaley, a sorceress who governed her own territory many leagues away. When news of her companion’s death reached her, Surrinya flew into a rage. Following Raddan’s example, she too claimed full governmental control of the territory that, to that point, she had simply used as a studying ground and protected from other mages. Unable to march her army across half the North to strike at Raddan directly, she instead invaded the territory of a wizard she knew to be a friend of Raddan’s, annexing the land and putting the wizard to the sword.

So we have a situation where the Northern marches is carved up between multiple mages, first as mage territories. The fuedal (imperial) government remains intact.

Wizards begin scheming to overthrow their local governments per the CS.

Raddan Goss is therefore one of several who overthrow the government in their territory. Could this be Blackmoor Castle/village?
If it was, this would mean that Raddan overthrows the Duke of Blackmoor - the appointed ruler of the Northern Marches by the Empire.

However the text says Raddan "wrested complete control of his lands from the local government." "Local Government" surely doesn't sound like the Ducal seat of the North. It also say that this "local Government" was a "semi-autonomous barony". Blackmoor at this time was a Duchy, not a Baronage, but in any case, we have to ask, "semi-autonomous" from whom?

If we take it to be referring to Blackmoor and that Blackmoor is "semi-autonomous" from the empire, then surely all the baronages would be semi-autonmous too. I mean it doesn't make sense that the duke at Blackmoor is semi-autonomous but the baron of the lakes is not.

I think the plain reading of the "local semi-autonomous baronial government", is that it is a place semi-autonomous from the power center at Blackmoor.

Goss is one of several "Greedy, power-mad sorcerers and wizards", who plots to overthrow the local authority and succeeds, but he is the first to take it a step further and attempt to conquer more land.

There is no hint here that Goss has Blackmoor castle - in fact he is never associated with the place. The land he does have seems wholly inadequate, which makes perfect sense if he was in control of Boggy Bottom or Pim or even Frog Island, but would elicit some comment if he already had Blackmoor Castle.

To me, the silence regarding Blackmoor Castle/Dungeon and Goss is very suggestive that he never had much to do with the place, for whatever reason, he seems to have left it to rot.

[Yaztromo]

Let me add another, little piece to the jigsaw, from the MMRPG episode 20: The Sorcerer's Tomb.
The setting is nearby Pebbleton, on the road going south of Maus, and the Sorcerer in the Tomb is called Sonia. The assault to Sonia's domain, back in the day, was led by Alertern, first apprentice to Skelfer Ard.

[Havard]

Let me add another, little piece to the jigsaw, from the MMRPG episode 20: The Sorcerer's Tomb.
The setting is nearby Pebbleton, on the road going south of Maus, and the Sorcerer in the Tomb is called Sonia. The assault to Sonia's domain, back in the day, was led by Alertern, first apprentice to Skelfer Ard.

Nice find!

Any relation to Sonia Shokalo, of the Duchy of the Peaks? Probably not...

Aletern is a nice historic NPC we could make more use of tho!

-Havard

[Yaztromo]

Any relation to Sonia Shokalo, of the Duchy of the Peaks? Probably not...

For sure not, as, in the adventure (Episode 20), Sonia has been prisoner of a Temporal Stasis trap for centuries. She was caught by mistake in her own trap as she was trying to flee when Alertern and other agents of the Wizards Cabal attacked her tower and killed several of her allies.
While Sonia Shokalo was rising to power and fame in the Duchy of the Peaks, she was in a temporal stasis...

I'm actually running the adventure in these days...