Blackmoor Setting Differences: A Definitive Comparison?

[Greg]

Has anyone ever created a definitive list of the core differences or the major new additions in each iteration of Blackmoor?

Obviously it's impossible to document every difference or addition. I'm mainly interested in major elements that are core aspects of the setting, such as races or subraces, organizations, major NPCs, campaign-level plot lines, etc. And it's potentially useful to know which came from Dave Arneson and which came from other designers, if possible.

As I've been learning more about Blackmoor and its different iterations, I've been reviewing and joining some of the discussions about differences between the First Fantasy Campaign (FFC), the DA series of modules (DA1 - DA4) and the later setting updates and materials published by Zeitgeist Games (ZGG). I've also been sorting out which elements of the setting were explicitly Dave Arneson's creation versus the creations of designers at TSR, Inc. or ZGG.

For example, the Q&A with Jeffrey Quinn, a designer who worked on the ZGG materials, revealed that the Westryn and Cumasti elves were his creation. Prior to this, in DA1, there are "various elvish factions," including the "Northern Elves," and there is reference to brethren in the Duchy of Ten who are suffering from a blight that is destroying their woods. These are the "western" elves that would later become the Westryn in the ZGG publications, but the pre-ZGG elves seem to be generic and merely divided into different clans or factions.

Of course, we also know that the Afridhi were partly a TSR creation by David Ritchie and his wife, based on nomadic invaders and possibly the Paynim Princess in Dave Arneson's original Blackmoor game. And the Wizard's Cabal changed dramatically from the DA modules to the ZGG version of the setting.

There are many other examples, but it would be great to have a high-level list or summary of the major differences or additions in each setting update. Does something like this exist, or do any of the folks here have enough knowledge to assemble a basic list from memory?

[Havard]

This is a pretty huge topic, but certainly very interesting.

Some things that are new in the DA modules (compared to the FFC and Supplement II):

• Blackmoor is placed into the past of the Known World Setting (later Mystara) since that is the default setting for Classic D&D at this point.
  
• Timeline advanced ca 30 years, focusing on the Reign of King Uther
  
• The Comeback Inn itself is expanded upon and presented in detail (DA1)
  
• The Temple of the Frog is revised and expanded upon, slightly changing St. Stephen's role into becoming a rebel instead of an agent of the City of the Gods.
  
• City of the Gods is expanded upon.
  
• Tons of new NPCs, many based on PCs from Dave's campaign.
  
• Geography, history and setting expanded upon
  
• New monsters, new spells, encounter tables
  
• Nomads referred to as Peshwa for the first time(?) and expanded upon
  
• Paymins referred to as Afridhi for the first time(?) and expanded upon
  
• Skandaharians expanded upon
  
• The Great Kingdom renamed The Thonian Empire and expanded upon
  
• Duchy of Ten storyline changed so it is occupied by the Afridhi. References to the Ran o' Ah Foo removed
  
• And lots and lots more.

Overall, I am a huge fan of the DA series and I think that this is where Blackmoor truly went from being a campaign and being turned into a setting where people outside of Dave's circle could really start their own campaigns. I also think Dave Arneson's vision shines through even not everyone is a fan of the Mystara connection (which I also love of course).

ZGG 3E line and 4E line

• timeline advanced by another 5 years after DA series.
  
• Elven culture and history expanded upon
  
• Gods and cosmology greatly expanded
  
• Mage Wars and history of magic added.
  
• Wizards Cabal changed and other Wizard groups added.
  
• New Prestige Classes, Spells, Feats, magic items
  
• New information on races and subraces
  
• Temple of the Frog, City of the Gods and Blackmoor dungeon revised and expanded upon
  
• New organizations
  
• Rules adaptations to 3E and 4E
  
• Steam and Clockwork technology added
  
• Peshwa culture expanded upon
  
• New rules for magic and elven elementalism
  
• New equipment
  
• New monsters

I am also a fan of the ZGG line. As you can see it adds tons of new material and I also like the way these books are organized, making the information much more accessible than in previous entries.

I did not include the MMRPG in the 3E/4E list since that series added and expanded upon so many concepts it deserves its own list.

Anyway, I am sure I missed tons of things and this is really just intended as a rough overview. Feel free to add more though!



-Havard

[Greg]

Thanks for your post, Havard!

I'm going to add some insights on Blackmoor's elves, which I found posted elsewhere. This may have been from your blog or the Blackmoor Archives, but unfortunately I didn't make note of the original source. I made a couple of slight corrections based on recent reviews of the source material and information from ZGG designers.

BLACKMOOR ELVES

First Fantasy Campaign
Various players played the Elven Prince. Presumably different princes.
Ringlo Hall as capital of the Elven Realm.
Elves are instrumental in driving the Egg of Coot out of Blackmoor
Elves use magical water hoses to defeat undead
Pixies listed as allies of the Wizard of the Woods.

DA Modules and BECMI/RC Era
Elven prince named Menander Ithamis
Elven race referred to as Genander clan.
Elven race created by Ordana.
Faunus presented as other patron of nature
Elves live sheltered by Fairies until about a thousand years before the Blackmoor era. See elves as a young race thread.
Fairies driven out of Thonia settle near Blackmoor.
Elves in the Duchy of Ten struggle with blight of their woods.

D20 Era
Elven Cumasti/Westryn split introduced.
Elven realms expanded.
Gen'Ri: A secret spy organization of the elves.
Ordo Elementarum: An organization of elven and human elementalists who hate technology.
Raddam Goss
Elven Elementalists
Elven Pantheon includes Ordana and Faunus, but also Elemental Gods.

[Greg]

Overall, I am a huge fan of the DA series and I think that this is where Blackmoor truly went from being a campaign and being turned into a setting where people outside of Dave's circle could really start their own campaigns. I also think Dave Arneson's vision shines through even not everyone is a fan of the Mystara connection (which I also love of course).

I am also a fan of the ZGG line. As you can see it adds tons of new material and I also like the way these books are organized, making the information much more accessible than in previous entries.

I'm an unusual case when it comes to Blackmoor. My first introduction to the setting was in 2014, when I returned to D&D for the first time in 20 years. I started learning more about Blackmoor from this site, the forum and your blog. But soon I bought a copy of the D20 campaign setting. I started getting copies of the original FFC and DA materials as well, but the D20 setting and map really kindled my interest in Blackmoor.

But here's where it gets strange. As I've mentioned elsewhere, I don't like the science fantasy aspects of Blackmoor, so that makes me pretty rare among Blackmoor fans. I don't care for genre mixing, and I prefer the aspects of Blackmoor that are more pulp fantasy, sword and sorcery, and high fantasy.

I remember seeing the Temple of the Frog module in the mid-1980s, and I thought the cover art and core concept were absurd. :lol: The same goes for the City of the Gods.

As I've learned more about Blackmoor, I don't like the retrofit into the Mystara setting either. I like Mystara, but I wish Blackmoor had simply been treated and developed as a separate setting. But that's mostly harmless since Blackmoor can be run as a standalone setting anyway. And you can ignore the adventures in the DA modules and just use those books for setting info.

In general, I prefer the D20 version of Blackmoor, but as I've been learning more about the FFC, I also like the idea of staying closer to Dave Arneson's original vision and the elements that came out of his home campaign. The problem is that it's so hard to discern his innovations in the DA modules and the D20 content from the work of other designers. That's partly what led me to create this topic, but it's also for historical and general understanding among Blackmoor fans.

In the end, when it comes to running Blackmoor with recent versions of D&D, I think the D20 version is by far the easiest and post practical choice.

[aldarron]

For example, the Q&A with Jeffrey Quinn, a designer who worked on the ZGG materials, revealed that the Westryn and Cumasti elves were his creation. Prior to this, in DA1, there are "various elvish factions," including the "Northern Elves," and there is reference to brethren in the Duchy of Ten who are suffering from a blight that is destroying their woods. These are the "western" elves that would later become the Westryn in the ZGG publications, but the pre-ZGG elves seem to be generic and merely divided into different clans or factions.

Yesish - there's more to the story.

Some of the D20 groundwork was laid by Arneson for a completely different project - the D&D movie.

Arneson had been asked to write some color content for the setting - the land of Izmer https://blackmoor.mystara.net/forums/vie...f=22&t=863

If you look through that material, you will see a lot of echoes to d20 Blackmoor, including the two types of elves.

[Havard]

Thanks for your post, Havard!

I'm going to add some insights on Blackmoor's elves, which I found posted elsewhere. This may have been from your blog or the Blackmoor Archives, but unfortunately I didn't make note of the original source. I made a couple of slight corrections based on recent reviews of the source material and information from ZGG designers.

BLACKMOOR ELVES

First Fantasy Campaign
Various players played the Elven Prince. Presumably different princes.
Ringlo Hall as capital of the Elven Realm.
Elves are instrumental in driving the Egg of Coot out of Blackmoor
Elves use magical water hoses to defeat undead
Pixies listed as allies of the Wizard of the Woods.

DA Modules and BECMI/RC Era
Elven prince named Menander Ithamis
Elven race referred to as Genander clan.
Elven race created by Ordana.
Faunus presented as other patron of nature
Elves live sheltered by Fairies until about a thousand years before the Blackmoor era. See elves as a young race thread.
Fairies driven out of Thonia settle near Blackmoor.
Elves in the Duchy of Ten struggle with blight of their woods.

D20 Era
Elven Cumasti/Westryn split introduced.
Elven realms expanded.
Gen'Ri: A secret spy organization of the elves.
Ordo Elementarum: An organization of elven and human elementalists who hate technology.
Raddam Goss
Elven Elementalists
Elven Pantheon includes Ordana and Faunus, but also Elemental Gods.

Good and important additions!

-Havard

[Havard]

I'm an unusual case when it comes to Blackmoor. My first introduction to the setting was in 2014, when I returned to D&D for the first time in 20 years. I started learning more about Blackmoor from this site, the forum and your blog. But soon I bought a copy of the D20 campaign setting. I started getting copies of the original FFC and DA materials as well, but the D20 setting and map really kindled my interest in Blackmoor.

But here's where it gets strange. As I've mentioned elsewhere, I don't like the science fantasy aspects of Blackmoor, so that makes me pretty rare among Blackmoor fans. I don't care for genre mixing, and I prefer the aspects of Blackmoor that are more pulp fantasy, sword and sorcery, and high fantasy.

I am not sure you are so unusual in the case of science fiction elements in Blackmoor. I think many people probably stay away from the setting for this reason. At the same time, every iteration of Blackmoor has these elements. They are also some of the elements that make Blackmoor stand out compared to other D&D settings today.

On the other hand, if you look at Dave Arneson's original campaign, it rarely revolved around these aspects. Even if they were present with the armor and weapons of the Blue Rider, the Monks of the Swamp, the City of the Gods, assorted magic items and perhaps even the Egg of Coot, most Blackmoor adventures focused on other fantasy activities. Looking at the DA modules, DA1 and DA4 have few of these aspects. The same can be said for the ZGG line.

For me, this is also an issue of science fiction changing over time. Including elements of science fiction as presented today might be easier to accept than including elements of science fiction as it existed in the 70s and 80s. I think a reimagined Blackmoor where alien artifacts exist, but where they are presented as mysterious and truly alien instead of something borrowed from Star Trek:TOS might make for a very different setting. Modern RPGs like Monte Cook's Numenera might be a good model for such artifacts.

I remember seeing the Temple of the Frog module in the mid-1980s, and I thought the cover art and core concept were absurd. :lol: The same goes for the City of the Gods.

Of course they are! Then again, this is also in the spirit of Dave Arneson and many old school game designers. They didn't take things as seriously as many of us do and they loved having fun with the genre. There could be a lesson in that too

As I've learned more about Blackmoor, I don't like the retrofit into the Mystara setting either. I like Mystara, but I wish Blackmoor had simply been treated and developed as a separate setting. But that's mostly harmless since Blackmoor can be run as a standalone setting anyway. And you can ignore the adventures in the DA modules and just use those books for setting info.

Again, I know many people who feel this way. However, as you say it is really easy to run the DA adventures and remove the sections related to Mystara. Looking back at the circumstances of how the DA modules were created, I think integrating them into Mystara could have actually been why the DA modules are able to present such a pure version of Blackmoor that they do. The decision to set Blackmoor into Mystara's past meant that very few changes had to be made to Blackmoor itself. The FFC adapted the map to fit with the Wilderlands. The ZGG books made changes to the setting to accomodate 3E/4E classes and races. If Dave Ritchie made changes to the setting of Blackmoor as presented in the DA modules or to Arneson's script, it would have been due to concerns of the adventures themselves or to clear up things he found confusing or perhaps didn't understand.

In general, I prefer the D20 version of Blackmoor, but as I've been learning more about the FFC, I also like the idea of staying closer to Dave Arneson's original vision and the elements that came out of his home campaign. The problem is that it's so hard to discern his innovations in the DA modules and the D20 content from the work of other designers. That's partly what led me to create this topic, but it's also for historical and general understanding among Blackmoor fans.

The FFC is an amazing gem and a book I keep going back to. When I play games in Blackmoor my main priority is for my players and myself to have a great time. I don't really care who came up with what for Blacmoor during actual play. However, I still love bringing in elements from the FFC and the original campaign, as a tribute to the original Blackmoor Bunch, but perhaps just as importantly, because there are some really great ideas there. Ideas that really make Blackmoor into a truly fascinating setting with amazing depth and creativity.

In the end, when it comes to running Blackmoor with recent versions of D&D, I think the D20 version is by far the easiest and post practical choice.

I am glad that we have the D20 books. My editions of choice today are BECMI and 5E, but I still consult the ZGG books since they have information that gamers today consider essential, but which were missing in earlier products. Also, they add many cool things that I make use of.

-Havard

[Greg]

I think a reimagined Blackmoor where alien artifacts exist, but where they are presented as mysterious and truly alien instead of something borrowed from Star Trek:TOS might make for a very different setting. Modern RPGs like Monte Cook's Numenera might be a good model for such artifacts.

In my case, I like taking some of the ideas about Blackmoor that I don't like and turning them into something that is less science fiction and more real science and fantasy. For example, a "star" indeed fell from the sky into the Valley of the Ancients long ago. It was a large meteorite containing elements of arcane power. Much of the meteorite vaporized on impact, but a large portion became embedded in the valley floor, and countless shards were embedded and scattered for miles around. This meteorite was part of a meteor shower that slammed into the planet and introduced the magical, black bedrock that now exists beneath much of the Blackmoor region. The meteorite's elements replicate the arcane power of sorcery and wizardry, enabling the embedding of spell-like effects into objects. But few have discovered these shards or learned their arcane properties. Unknown to the rest of the world, Robert the Bald was one of them. He used some of these arcane shards to build his tower on Cloudtop and power his magical staff that helps him develop his monstrous creations. And recent rumors say that ash goblins were recently encountered in the Valley of the Ancients with magical weapons encrusted with pieces of strange, black stone. :wink:

Anyway, I don't want to detract from the main topic here, so I'll leave it at that.