What >> published << Blackmoor clones are out there?

[Rafael]

Hey,

Question's in the title: Just how many of the many, many clone/homage projects that were announced over the years really saw the light of day/were more than vaporware?

There is, obviously, Rob Conley's Blackmarsh/Wild North/Southland setting, which I recall that we partially reviewed here, but didn't find the thread to. (Short version: In the beginning, I wasn't specifically thrilled, but over time, this one has really grown on me. I'll never run it, but I have repeatedly recommended it to people that are new to BM, but not willing to invest in a lot of OOP books or PDFs.)

But outside of that, what's there? - I am not thinking about what was announced, or what was previewed, I am saying, what really saw publication? Dan Boggs' "Dragons of Dawn" was certainly an "Arnesonian" product, but it didn't feature a setting by its own, IIRC.

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"Vaporware" here is not meant as an insult to the respective writers - I myself am guilty of that, here and there. ...And if you ask me when my own stuff will see the light of day, then I'll answer - "right after I finish editing the files for 'The Road'". :oops: :wink: But let's be real, here, too: If you released a three-page preview in 2010, and in 2018, the book/booklet/other project isn't out yet... Then it might just be that it'll never come out.

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So, in sum, long story short: What's out there, folks? As always, I am a tad bit out of the loop, and would enjoy to learn some news!

Yours,

Rafe

[Havard]

Here are a few things that might fit the bill?


Published Material

• 2010 Dragons at Dawn by DH Boggs
  
• 2011 Blackmarsh by Rob S Conley
  
• 2012 Champions of ZED by DH Boggs

Announced & Vapourware

• 2009 New Lands/Lost Moorlands/ Shaerdraeth Robert Reed's Code Monkey Press
  
• 2010 Jeff Quinn's Destiny6

-Havard

[aldarron]

Blackmarsh, but also I would consider Greyhawk Blackmoor to be a Blackmoor knock-off. It clearly borrows ideas from the "real" Blackmoor. Maybe it being a mirror world would be a better description.

There's also various Frog Cult adventures that seem like Blackmoor in all but name. Fane of the Toad is one that comes to mind, IIRC.

[Havard]

Blackmarsh, but also I would consider Greyhawk Blackmoor to be a Blackmoor knock-off. It clearly borrows ideas from the "real" Blackmoor. Maybe it being a mirror world would be a better description.

That is an interesting perspective! I think it is a bit different from what Rafe had in mind, but it could be included for completeness.

There's also various Frog Cult adventures that seem like Blackmoor in all but name. Fane of the Toad is one that comes to mind, IIRC.

Thanks for reminding me of these.

The Fane of St. Toad is an excellent tribute adventure.

How many Frog related products are there?

-Havard

[Yaztromo]

I can mention a few at the drop of a hat:
*Beyond the Towers, by W. Jason Peck, published by WotC (it includes swamps and ziggurats)
*Challenge of the Frog Idol, by Dyson Logos
*The Croaking Fane, by Michael Curtis, published by Goodman Games

I can also tell you in advance that next Blackmoor Living World adventure will be about this theme as well

[Rafael]

That is an interesting perspective! I think it is a bit different from what Rafe had in mind, but it could be included for completeness.

Yes, I'm really mainly looking for books - or texts pf any kind, really - where somebody sat down and said: "I want to write something Arneson-ish". With that, I am not even including, say, "Powers & Perils", or Steve Lortz' ventures into RuneQuest (was it?), or, generally, hommages to Arneson by his peers.

Possible knock-offs, especially in the 80s, there are aplenty, of course, from Angus Wells' novel series "The Kingdoms", to Stephen Bourne's D&D-adventures "Destiny of Kings", as well as the (unrelated) "Crown of Ancient Glory". All three, like good replicants, almost read "more Blackmoor than Blackmoor", but... The authors never specifically said that Arneson was an influence.

So, it could still be... Coincidink. :|


That's not a snide against them, by the way: Angus Wells is, by far, my favorite "light" fantasy writer, and Bourne's adventures are extremely well done.



Very interesting ideas, folks! Thank you, and keep them coming!

[Yaztromo]

Just a passing mention about the fact that there is a (Old School) RPG publisher that is called Frog God Games!
https://froggodgames.com/frogs/frog-crew/

[Havard]

Just a passing mention about the fact that there is a (Old School) RPG publisher that is called Frog God Games!
https://froggodgames.com/frogs/frog-crew/

Frog God Games used to be Necromancer Games before Clark Peterson got into trouble with his other job. He and Bill Webb parted ways and Webb's company Frog God Games eventually acquired Necromancer Games too. I think Frog God also published some rather Blackmoor inspired products?

-Havard

[Havard]

Also, what's the name of Golarion's Blackmoor inspired realm?

[Rafael]

EDIT: Sorry, Havard, had not seen your answer.

Just a passing mention about the fact that there is a (Old School) RPG publisher that is called Frog God Games!
https://froggodgames.com/frogs/frog-crew/

This is actually why I am cautious with the frog references: "Tsathoggua", from Clark Ashton Smith's Hyperborean stories, is the same motif, but a different tradition.

The company Frog God Games is the successor to Necromancer Games, and the two head designers usually signed their works and posted on the internet as "Orcus" and "Tsathoggua". So, while they obviously know about Arneson, I don't think there is a relation, like, at all. Frog monsters have been among the stock of 20th century fantasy tropes, the same way, say, that elves, angels, and sinking landmasses are characteristic to Tolkien, but necessarily signs for a reception of his works.

With the adventures, it could be a different thing - but I have to confess that I don't know. For some reason, I have always been more of a DA3 and DA4 guy than a DA2 guy, so I couldn't spot all too many details when looking through those titles, one by one. Broad referefences, yes, but in-detail hommages, hmmm.


Another adventure that we could perhaps add to the Blackmoor apocrypha/hommages is Ari Marmell's "The Doom of Listonshire", which he released under the aforementioned Necromancer Games' banner. It's one of the very best adventures I've ever run, trumping even a couple of the classics, as far as I'm concerned. And the setting is very, very Blackmoor-ish - not so much "Blackmoor, the kingdom", as much as fitting for for MMRPG and the Thonian Rand.

- Yet, Ari, who even had written for the BM d20 line, back in the day, told me - I think on Facebook - that he had not consciously written the adventure as a fit for BM. So, it's probably a real coincidence: Dark, Anglo-Saxon, high medieval fantasy is kind of his genre, and he would have had no reason to lie. The same way that, say, much of Tad Williams' fantasy books share many elements with BM, without there being a connection.