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BM's actual copyright status?
#1
Hi,

While I am busy with pleasant things, for once, and putting my old manuscript folders in order, one big question:

What's the state of BM's actual copyright situation?

So, Wizbro owns... Something.
And supposedly, the Arneson estate owns... Something.
And Judges Guild owns... Something.
And Flying Buffalo owns... Something.
And Dustin Clingman/ZGG owns... Something.
And Code Monkey Publishing (correct name?) owns... Something.

Can someone enlighten me, or rather than that, fill in the *somethings*? -I used to have a pretty good idea about things, but my info is surely at least five years old.

Thanks,

Rafe
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#2
Raphael Pinthus Wrote:And Flying Buffalo owns... Something.
I'm no help here, but I'm having a brain cramp. What Blackmoor product was done through Flying Buffalo? :?
Marv / Finarvyn
Member of The Regency Council
Visit my Blackmoor OD&D board
OD&D since 1975

"Don't ask me what you need to hit. Just roll the die and I will let you know!"
- Dave Arneson

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#3
Not Blackmoor, but AiF, as property of Adventure Games, was sold to FB at some point. Supposedly, that is.
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#4
The simple version is that WotC owns Blackmoor.

Now to get into some more detail:

Wizards of the Coast
The own the Blackmoor name, the setting and most associated IP.

Arneson Estate
Dave Arneson said that Bob Bledsaw had reverted the rights of the FFC back to Dave. This would have been passed onto his
daughter upon Dave's passing.

Judges Guild
Assuming the above is true JG holds no claim to Blackmoor. If Bob Bledaw never made the promise of reverting the FFC rights back to Dave into writing, then JG could dispute the claim, perhaps making it possible to reprint the FFC. This is problematic however because of WotC's claims to the Blackmoor setting. They could probably get away with publishing the FFC as a Campaign Journal, but not as a setting.

ZGG/Dustin Clingman/Code Monkey:
It is hard to say if they have any claim. This depends on the contract ZGG had with WotC and whatever contract ZGG and with Code Monkey. Most likely if they have any claim at all, it is to the specific content published while their lisence was in effect. This would prevent WotC from publishing things like the Redwood Scar or other books published during that era. I do not believe it would prevent WotC from rewamping the DA series for 5th Ed however.

Code Monkey has claim to Shaerdraeth, although that setting includes a few items that might be considered plagiarism, if not removed before publishing.

Flying Buffalo
Dave Arneson sold his company Adventure Games to Flying Buffalo. This included Adventures in Fantasy and the mini-setting Bleakwood.


The above might look complicated, but the simple answer is WotC owns it.

-Havard
Currently Running: The Blackmoor Vales Saga
Currently Playing: Daniel S. Debelfry in the Throne of Star's Campaign
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#5
Not that it matters much to me ... I'm going to crib, import, adapt, modify, and use to taste* ... Wink

*without violation of copyright or IP!
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#6
Havard Wrote:ZGG/Dustin Clingman/Code Monkey:
It is hard to say if they have any claim. This depends on the contract ZGG had with WotC and whatever contract ZGG and with Code Monkey. Most likely if they have any claim at all, it is to the specific content published while their lisence was in effect. This would prevent WotC from publishing things like the Redwood Scar or other books published during that era. I do not believe it would prevent WotC from rewamping the DA series for 5th Ed however.

Code Monkey has claim to Shaerdraeth, although that setting includes a few items that might be considered plagiarism, if not removed before publishing.

They have the exact claim in the front of the books they published.

There is no "copyright" on Blackmoor as a single thing. The single thing would be Blackmoor being an "Intellectual Property".

Those individual books all have their own individual copyrights. (And each one will become a public domain work on a different day.)

The ZGG/Dustin Clingman/Code Monkey stuff is copyrighted to whoever is named as the copyright holder. But if they do not still have a licence to use the IP rights, they would not be allowed to reprint it.

Not having the legal right to reprint something does not mean that WotC gains the right to reprint it. And it does not mean that WotC can sell the right to reprint those books to anyone else. What you have here is a series of derivative works. Derivative works have their own legal complications as both parities have some sort of claim to the work.

If you live long enough to see the first Blackmoor products start to go into the public domain*, the interesting thing would be that the later derivative works would start to become works based on public domain material (instead of material still owned by WotC). So there would be a short time when ZGG/Dustin Clingman/Code Monkey could legally be reprinted by the copyright holders...just before that goes public domain too. (Once that goes public domain too, anyone will be able to republish it.)

* = We would probably all be brains in jars connected up to the Internet by that point. Tongue

The time between the first Blackmoor product going public domain and the last Blackmoor product going public domain will be legally interesting, as it will be legal to make new Blackmoor products based on some of the IP, but not all of it. So any of the companies that own the copyright on any of the products might be able to take legal action against people printing Blackmoor material, but they would need to establish in a court that elements in the new books were taken from Blackmoor books that still had copyright protection.

To make things even more fun, we are not talking about US law here. We are talking about local copyright laws in individual countries. So one country might potentially drop Blackmoor into public domain before the US does. If that happens, it would be legal to repring Blackmoor products there (or create derivative works based on the Blackmoor products that had fallen into the public domain there) but it would be illegal to import those public domain products into countries where the copyright had not expired. :twisted:

There are a couple of international copyright treaties that various countries have signed up to. That would probably override how long the local copyright protection lasts, but I'm not sure what would happen if a country granted more protection than in the USA itself. It is possible that WotC or one of the other parties could try to fight international cases after Blackmoor goes public domain in the US. But, I personally think that they would not bother to try to enforce their rights at that point.
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#7
Thanks for the input BM!
Thanks for pointing to the statements in the book. That probably cleans out some of the speculation. I was thinking the lisence contract between WotC and ZGG could have specificied that rights for everything would revert back to WotC if the lisence was discontinued, but perhaps that would have been included in the books then?

One thing worth noting though is that WotC did release their Return to the Temple of the Frog while ZGG still had the lisence. That should probably prove that WotC can do alot with the Blackmoor Setting should they want to, even if they are prevented from using Skelfer, the Elf Schisma and the MMRPG references...

-Havard
Currently Running: The Blackmoor Vales Saga
Currently Playing: Daniel S. Debelfry in the Throne of Star's Campaign
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#8
The name Blackmoor, specific names of people, places, and things in Blackmoor, belong to WotC.

EXCEPT things created during the ZGG and CMP time frame and released.

ZGG was/is a totally separate entity from CMP. CMP entered an agreement with ZGG to take things over and develop new things.

I (CMP) can use things ZGG made that do not belong to WotC (because of licensing with ZGG). I (CMP) can use things we made. WotC can NOT use things ZGG and CMP created, except OGC items (as can anyone).

For example: I cannot use Westryn or Cumasti names for Elves in any of my products. I could come up with differing names but similar histories, not exact since I can't use the lands of Blackmoor itself (Maps and locations are primarily in WotC's hands... locations created by ZGG or CMP are of course, fair game).

To the best of my knowledge, other than a few select things under the Arneson family control, everything else belongs to WotC of the original Blackmoor material.

Hope that clarifies.

W. Robert Reed III
Mynex
- #1 Evil Monkey
- Code Monkey Publishing Owner
- Summum Malorum Simius

W. Robert Reed III
Mynex / EvilMynex
Code Monkey Publishing
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#9
Thanks for clearing this up Robert!

-Havard
Currently Running: The Blackmoor Vales Saga
Currently Playing: Daniel S. Debelfry in the Throne of Star's Campaign
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