Revised Blackmoor + C&C map

[aldarron]

Working off the map that Snorri made and incorporating Zenopus notes I'm in the process of redrawing the map I use for my campaign. I followed Norton's descriptions of Faraaz and Yerocunby so the location differs a little from where Zenopus had them. I also include the wild coast since it's mentioned in the original version of tomb of Horrors along with those Blackmoor locations. Work in progress so comments very welcome!

[Havard]

Interesting.

Any chance of getting a higher resolution of the map? Some labels are a little hard to read.

Tangor is a name from the Mystara franchise. If you want to keep this strictly 1970s style/Arnesonian, a more appropriate name would be The Jungle Realm. In my own projects I try to appeal both to regular Blackmoor fans and Mystara fans, so I use "Jungle Realms of Tangor".

Cirkhosia and Salik is a curious combination. The only thing known about Cirkhosia is that a Circkhosian Merchant once visited Jarl Thorsen of the Skandaharians. It seems a bit far removed from the Skandaharian lands for that, but I suppose real world Vikings did travel farther.

-Havard

[aldarron]

Interesting.

Any chance of getting a higher resolution of the map? Some labels are a little hard to read.

I'll email you a copy, but some of it is just old poor resolution doodles.

Tangor is a name from the Mystara franchise. If you want to keep this strictly 1970s style/Arnesonian, a more appropriate name would be The Jungle Realm. In my own projects I try to appeal both to regular Blackmoor fans and Mystara fans, so I use "Jungle Realms of Tangor".

Yeah I know. I liked your ideas about Tangor so I left it on the map. That could be removed. I've been assuming the Bolgere Islands can be matched with "The lordship of the isles" from GH, which is also a "Jungle Realm", though the ethnicity seems different, I've been borrowing details from that.

Cirkhosia and Salik is a curious combination. The only thing known about Cirkhosia is that a Circkhosian Merchant once visited Jarl Thorsen of the Skandaharians. It seems a bit far removed from the Skandaharian lands for that, but I suppose real world Vikings did travel farther.

-Havard

Both appear to be middle-eastern derived names(cirkhosian/circassian and DJiin of Salik) so they seemed a natural fit. That plus I assume traveling merchants are likely from very far away, seeking exotic goods or selling the same. The cirkhosians likely travel by ship and the one in skhandahar was probably seeking amber- not unlike such trade routes between northern europe and the middle east historically.

[Rafael]

Nice! (More later, just returned home.)

[aldarron]

And real quick and dirty - here's about where I think "Province One" - the outdoor survival map goes.



you might be able to see the Wurm river extends north from the OS map into the BM map and the Dragon hills are just to the west of it. I used the really nicely done map here. It'd be nice to clean this up and add the BM names to it but I'm not sure I have the map skills for that. Feel free to play with it if you like.
http://swashbucklershideout.blogspot.com...ngeon.html

[Havard]

Interesting.

Any chance of getting a higher resolution of the map? Some labels are a little hard to read.

I'll email you a copy, but some of it is just old poor resolution doodles.

Thanks. Alot easier to read!


Some comments:


Raiders of the East/West: My impression is that these are named after the direction from which they attack Blackmoor. AFAIK, only the Raiders of the West use the Firefrost Channel to attack Blackmoor. If so, it would make more sense to move both clans east of the Channel IMO.

Tangor:

Yeah I know. I liked your ideas about Tangor so I left it on the map. That could be removed. I've been assuming the Bolgere Islands can be matched with "The lordship of the isles" from GH, which is also a "Jungle Realm", though the ethnicity seems different, I've been borrowing details from that.

Fair enough
Bolgere/Bolgerie is a name I invented. The name comes from DA1, where "Bolger" is a term used for dark skinned people, or possibly referring to a nation of dark skinned humans.


Cirkhosia & Salik:

Both appear to be middle-eastern derived names(cirkhosian/circassian and DJiin of Salik) so they seemed a natural fit. That plus I assume traveling merchants are likely from very far away, seeking exotic goods or selling the same. The cirkhosians likely travel by ship and the one in skhandahar was probably seeking amber- not unlike such trade routes between northern europe and the middle east historically.

I have them as separate entities IMC, but I like the idea of Amber trade Consider that idea stolen!


Re: Map with Outdoor Survival Map inserted:
Notice the similarities between the OS Map and the southern part of the Blackmoor Map from the later TSR modules. Consider the similarities between the OS Desert-like valley and the Valley of the Ancients. If that wasn't the original location of the City of the Gods, I am still pretty sure that David Ritchie used the OS Map (or had sketches from Dave) to expand the FFC Map.

-Havard

[aldarron]

......

Re: Map with Outdoor Survival Map inserted:
Notice the similarities between the OS Map and the southern part of the Blackmoor Map from the later TSR modules. Consider the similarities between the OS Desert-like valley and the Valley of the Ancients. If that wasn't the original location of the City of the Gods, I am still pretty sure that David Ritchie used the OS Map (or had sketches from Dave) to expand the FFC Map.

-Havard

I'll take a look, and I'm not so sure I like where I put the OS map now either. A closer look at the FFC maps shows the wurm river petering out before going very far south. The Misauga might be a much better fit and the scale should prolly be smaller.

[Havard]

I'll take a look, and I'm not so sure I like where I put the OS map now either. A closer look at the FFC maps shows the wurm river petering out before going very far south. The Misauga might be a much better fit and the scale should prolly be smaller.

I actually think your placement of the OS is close to perfect. Its your placement of the City of the Gods that I disagree with.

Also, Eastern Hak south west of Blackmoor sure seems off...

-Havard

[aldarron]

I'll take a look, and I'm not so sure I like where I put the OS map now either. A closer look at the FFC maps shows the wurm river petering out before going very far south. The Misauga might be a much better fit and the scale should prolly be smaller.

I actually think your placement of the OS is close to perfect. Its your placement of the City of the Gods that I disagree with.

Also, Eastern Hak south west of Blackmoor sure seems off...

-Havard

Well, yes, they are definitely off by the 1977 + maps, I agree, but those were recast to mesh with JG's Wilderlands. I'm trying to retrofit to the C&C map and figure rough equivalents to features from Blackmoor, so a bit of rearranging of things is prolly necessary.

The original 1971 Blackmoor map shows "desert" southwest of the Dragon Hills and some unnamed mountains south of Ten (what are these mountains I wonder). I'd assume this "desert" is the home of the desert nomad, maybe the ben hassock, etc. precursers of the Peshwa. So I'm thinking desert = plains.

That also lines up with Robilars Journey where they had to "cross the nearby plains" to get to the CoG. The city itself lies "on the other side of blackmoor" which means Blackmoor must somehow be between their location in the Great Kingdom and the location of the CoG. Note that neither of these facts can be reconciled with the post 1977 maps.

So I dunno, it's not an ideal locaction prolly, but it seemed to be about the only spot on the
C&C map that would work with Robilar's tale and the original map. If you notice on the C&C map on the other side of the mountain southwest of Blackmoor are the "Dry Steppes" - prolly the same as the "plains of Lar" from quag keep but a pretty obvious analog for the western Hak in any case, so it followed that if the Eastern Hak is the "desert" on the original map the Valley of the ancients must be the valley that lies between these two areas on the C&C map.

[aldarron]

......
Raiders of the East/West: My impression is that these are named after the direction from which they attack Blackmoor. AFAIK, only the Raiders of the West use the Firefrost Channel to attack Blackmoor. If so, it would make more sense to move both clans east of the Channel IMO.

....
-Havard

Yeah that makes sense. Prolly fits better with some of the sea raider incidents reported too. I put the Skhandaharrians where the C&C maps have the "hold of the Iron Hand", but I put western skandihar right against the paynim/afridhi territory and that could be problematic too.

So instead I think Western Skandiharr should be where eastern skandiharr is now and eastern skandiharr I'll move to the spit of land just north of the Snowy Hills below where I wrote "Icebergs."

Thanks for the suggestion Havard.