Eight DA Modules and a Blackmoor Novel planned by TSR!

[Havard]

According to the article "Hey Dave, What's with the Castle - A Biography" by Dave Arneson in Space Gamer/Fantasy Gamer #85, TSR had published 2 DA modules in 1986 "6 more were planned". Only a total of 4 were published. We know that DA5 - City of Blackmoor was in the works. Rumours say it was even written, but never published. This still leaves a possible 3 unwritten modules in the series.

Dave Arneson also mentions a novel that was planned and then dropped in the same context, but it is not clear that he is talking about a Blackmoor novel. That does seem logical however.

Now, Aldarron did mention talk of a Blackmoor Chronicles manuscript by Dave Arneson. I have speculated that this was what formed the basis of the 4 DA modules that were published and co-written by David J. Ritchie in 1986-87. Could the Blackmoor Chronicles have included material enough for another four modules? Could any of this be found in the Chronicles of Thonia manuscript sold on ebay last year?

In any case, what would have been their focus?

-Havard

[RobJN]

I think the Iron Duke would need to be dealt with, more so than he was in DA1.

The Skandaharians hadn't been touched on, nor was any sort of clash with the Egg.

With the levels spread of the published modules reaching into Expert/Companion, I can imagine the last half reaching Master...dare I say even maybe Immortal level? (Maybe it was a n00b Immortal that dropped the ball in allowing Blackmoor to go ka-blooey!) :wink:

[Havard]

I think the Iron Duke would need to be dealt with, more so than he was in DA1.

The Skandaharians hadn't been touched on, nor was any sort of clash with the Egg.

I think all of these are likely possibilities. It is interesting how many of the events of the later DA series that are hinted at in DA1. Perhaps through examining them in greater detail we can learn more about what Dave Arneson had planned for the 8-volume series.

I am also wondering about the novel idea. Would it have been a novelization of the modules? Or something else?

With the levels spread of the published modules reaching into Expert/Companion, I can imagine the last half reaching Master...dare I say even maybe Immortal level? (Maybe it was a n00b Immortal that dropped the ball in allowing Blackmoor to go ka-blooey!) :wink:

It is interesting that all of the current modules are detailed for the Companion level range. Could be interesting if they were designed for Master/Immortal level, definitely!

-Havard

[Rafael]

Those where, most likely, publication slots, not full concepts. That's the way TSR managed their publishing schedule.

Now, that Arneson had handed TSR way more material than got published, we know from the lawsuit papers.

[Havard]

Those where, most likely, publication slots, not full concepts. That's the way TSR managed their publishing schedule.

Now, that Arneson had handed TSR way more material than got published, we know from the lawsuit papers.

Think you could pull out some quotes on this? I wasn't able to find anything specific on this, but the documents are massive...

-Havard

[Rafael]

I had a searchable PDF document a few years ago, but I don't seem to find it any more.
I think it said something about a few entire boxes of manuscripts that were delivered. ...Or do I have that from another source? Raaah.

I'll check over Christmas, and then send you what I have. ...If I have something. :x
Our secret project, we abandoned it two years ago, already, and my memory about its details grows dim. :oops:

[Rafael]

Now, to give a more coherent answer than that one, what we all know anyway is that David Ritchie worked with different material than what he published.
We also know that Arneson handed several manuscripts to Tim Kask, which that one today classifies as unreadable, etc. and possibly everything he had concerning the BM campaign.

So, there should be more than enough machine-written draft papers, like the Thonia manuscript you pointed to that was sold on ebay.


I think, the next step would be to contact the collectors at the Acaeum, and to see what they own. My personal estimation, for several reasons,
is that there might be up to 10,000 manuscript pages on Blackmoor alone.

- BUT that doesn't mean that there were novel drafts, and on. The story about the production slots, a different animal. Goes into the entire Lorraine Williams debate,
and my view on that is that I concur with her reasoning about restructuring the product lineups.

[Havard]

I had a searchable PDF document a few years ago, but I don't seem to find it any more.
I think it said something about a few entire boxes of manuscripts that were delivered. ...Or do I have that from another source? Raaah.

I'll check over Christmas, and then send you what I have. ...If I have something. :x

Thanks! I believe you are right about this. My main reason for being interested in the quote is the possibility that there could be other clues there. So if you find something that would be very helpful!

Now, to give a more coherent answer than that one, what we all know anyway is that David Ritchie worked with different material than what he published.
We also know that Arneson handed several manuscripts to Tim Kask, which that one today classifies as unreadable, etc. and possibly everything he had concerning the BM campaign.

True. I would have loved to see those notes. I suspect that the main reason they were discarded is because the people at TSR were still thinking in terms of miniature simulation games. After all, noone really knew what an RPG was or what it was going to become. They were writing the first chapter in the history of the hobby. How much could they possibly understand of what gaming was to become? Very likely, much of this material was what would later end up in the FFC though.

So, there should be more than enough machine-written draft papers, like the Thonia manuscript you pointed to that was sold on ebay.


I think, the next step would be to contact the collectors at the Acaeum, and to see what they own. My personal estimation, for several reasons,
is that there might be up to 10,000 manuscript pages on Blackmoor alone.

Working on it. 8)

Your estimation sounds a bit high IMO, but its hard to say. If you take into account multiple drafts then I suppose the number could be very high.

- BUT that doesn't mean that there were novel drafts, and on. The story about the production slots, a different animal. Goes into the entire Lorraine Williams debate,
and my view on that is that I concur with her reasoning about restructuring the product lineups

You are probably right about this. However, what I find interesting about this interview is that it is Dave Arneson talking about the 8 modules and novel. This means that even if TSR did not have too specific plans for more Blackmoor products, it does suggest that Dave had ideas for what those unpublished modules/novels might have contained.

I started a similar thread to this one on The Piazza, and Cthulhudrew's suggestions for what the later modules could have contained seems highly likely.

The Thonia Chronicles document contained 525 pages. This should be more than enough material for much more than 4 modules of about 70 pages each, which is what we got to see.

Possibly the ZGG Blackmoor line and the FFC could offer clues about what we were missing as well. As I have previously speculated, DA5 would likely have included the map of Blackmoor Town (with description) and perhaps material later included in Dungeons of Castle Blackmoor.

The Thonian Rand, the Egg of Coot and the Duchy of the Peaks do seem like likely areas for further exploration. Perhaps the Peshwah and the Skandaharians would have featured more prominently as well.

-Havard

[Rafael]

Short answer, got to work tonight:

Your estimation sounds a bit high IMO, but its hard to say. If you take into account multiple drafts then I suppose the number could be very high.

Yeah, that's why my estimation was so high. Stats usually TSR'ed as DIN A4 pages, too, IIRC.

You are probably right about this. However, what I find interesting about this interview is that it is Dave Arneson talking about the 8 modules and novel. This means that even if TSR did not have too specific plans for more Blackmoor products, it does suggest that Dave had ideas for what those unpublished modules/novels might have contained.

You'll have to skype with me some day to find out why I don't believe that. :wink:

Mind you that Dave Arneson's engagement lasted into the Lorraine Williams years; his material was simply nixed because sales went down, not because of politics.


I have my own theories about what happened to some of the discarded Blackmoor material...

[Rafael]

:twisted: