[GH] Great Kingdom as Czarist Russia?

[Havard]

Unconfirmed rumour floating around the internet:

Even Gary's own Greyhawk campaign was set on fantasy Earth.

IIUC, there were a lot of historical parallels. The Great Kingdom was Czarist Russia, Furyondy was Valois France, etc.

Source: http://odd74.proboards.com/index.cgi?bo ... hread=6241

Anyone else heard about this?

-Havard

[aldarron]

No, and geographically it doesn't make much sense. Czarist russia could be a kind of model for the Great Kingdom, but I really think, politics wise, it seems more like imperial china.

[DungeonDevil]

I kinda envision it like Imperial Rome, expanding outwards, establishing garrisons in remote, "barbarous" wilderness areas of Europe; limited trading with the "local tribespeople", and so forth. Or, by analogy with REH's Aquilonia, which was expanding westward into the Pictish Wilderness and northward into Cimmeria.

[Havard]

No, and geographically it doesn't make much sense. Czarist russia could be a kind of model for the Great Kingdom, but I really think, politics wise, it seems more like imperial china.

The only think I could see supporting this rumour is that Dave Ritchie uses various slavic and easter european names for places and individuals from the Thonian Empire. But again, perhaps any evil empire written about in the 1980s would bring associations to the Soviet Union?

I kinda envision it like Imperial Rome, expanding outwards, establishing garrisons in remote, "barbarous" wilderness areas of Europe; limited trading with the "local tribespeople", and so forth. Or, by analogy with REH's Aquilonia, which was expanding westward into the Pictish Wilderness and northward into Cimmeria.

Interesting. One thing I read on a wiki (I think) was that Gary had taken alot of inspiration for Greyhawk from British history with the various invasions leading up to 1066.

Another approach, which I have sometimes taken with Thonia is the Holy Roman Empire. For Greyhawk specifically, Charlemagne's Empire might also work, but I think this doesnt fit that well in the Blackmoor version where the Empire is so old and also more sinister.

-Havard

[aldarron]

Another approach, which I have sometimes taken with Thonia is the Holy Roman Empire. For Greyhawk specifically, Charlemagne's Empire might also work, but I think this doesnt fit that well in the Blackmoor version where the Empire is so old and also more sinister.

-Havard

Yeah Holy Roman empire is one I've thought of too. I think what I draw from the China analogy is mostly the idea of a great dynasty, imperial majesty, imperial city, and vast wealth. Rome kinda fits that but you don't get the same dynastic power kind of dynamic.

[Havard]

Yeah Holy Roman empire is one I've thought of too. I think what I draw from the China analogy is mostly the idea of a great dynasty, imperial majesty, imperial city, and vast wealth. Rome kinda fits that but you don't get the same dynastic power kind of dynamic.

Byzantium, maybe?

-Havard

[aldarron]

Yeah Holy Roman empire is one I've thought of too. I think what I draw from the China analogy is mostly the idea of a great dynasty, imperial majesty, imperial city, and vast wealth. Rome kinda fits that but you don't get the same dynastic power kind of dynamic.

Byzantium, maybe?

-Havard

Yeah, or maybe the Ottoman Empire too.

[Combatmedic]

Moscow is the Third Rome, and a fourth there shall not be!

Seriously, though, the Tsars saw themselves as inheritors of the East Roman Empire, and therefore, of Rome.

So did the Ottomans, to a lesser extent. Kaiser-i-Rum= Caesar of Rome.

[Havard]

Good point. The whole Russia thing, or even the Ottoman parallell are interesting given the slavic names used by many Thonians in the DA modules...

-Havard

[ripvanwormer]

The main connection that I see is that the Great Kingdom, in the Greyhawk setting, is ruled from a Malachite Throne, and the Winter Palace famously contains a Malachite Room.