Quag Keep and Blackmoor mapping

[aldarron]

Thanks first to Marv for posting about Blackmoor and Quag Keep here:
http://odd74.proboards.com/index.cgi?bo ... hread=3984

In the back of me head I've been thinking of looking in to this a bit more and I realized it provides a solution I've been looking for in my SWA Campaign map musings here:
viewtopic.php?f=22&t=328&start=20

As I choose to see it Quag Keep merges 2nd hand reports of Gygax's Greyhawk with some 2nd hand (from Supp II) and 3rd hand (from Gygax and company) of Arnesons Blackmoor.

So, basically the world of Quag Keep is Greyhawk in south and center and Blackmoor to the north - the two worlds merged together.

Thus geographical features and places that are not part of official Greyhawk are "up for grabs" for Blackmoor and can be used to fill in some blanks. Here's what I got so far:

"We can change the line of march by this much-upriver to the main stream. We shall have Yerocunby and Faraaz facing us at the border. But the river then will lead us straight into the mountains.

To the left, or west, were mountains scattered in broken chains, dividing smaller kingdoms one from the other. Rivers, fed by
tributaries, formed boundaries for many of these. This cluster of nations ended in such unknown territories as the Dry Steppes which only the Nomad Raiders of Lar dared venture out upon (the few watering places therein being hereditary possessions of those clans).

the lands of the Holy Lords of Faraaz.

Lord Fon-du-Ling of Faraaz. He would have in his out-garden the rarest of beasts. Already”-now he waved towards the line of cages -“I have managed to find a griff-cat, a prim lizard, even
a white sand serpent. Warrior.” Now he addressed Naile directly. “To my Lord, money is nothing. A year ago he found the hidden Temple of Tung and all its once-locked treasures are under his hand.

cross-shaped trading tokens from the Land of the Holy Lords
struck out in copper but still well able to pass freely in Greyhawk where so many kinds of men, dwarves, elves, and others traveled. In addition he saw a dozen of those silver, half-moon circles coined in Faraaz, and two of the mother-of-pearl disks incised with the fierce head of a sea-serpent which came from the island Duchy of Maritiz.

What do we know of those who built the Five Cities in the Great Kingdom?

The empire of Kalastro, destroyed by a volcanic eruption “plague of fire” from the Southern Mountains.

okay, so the short list is:

island Duchy of Maritiz
Yerocunby
Faraaz
Nomad Raiders of the dry steppes of Lar

So,

Lar I take to be another name for the eastern Karsh. Kalastro is "southern" but will probably make it onto my map anyhow, perhaps as home to Havards jungles of Tangor...

[Havard]

Interesting. Looks like I'm going to have to get myself a copy of this book

okay, so the short list is:

island Duchy of Maritiz
Yerocunby
Faraaz
Nomad Raiders of the dry steppes of Lar

So,

Lar I take to be another name for the eastern Karsh. Kalastro is "southern" but will probably make it onto my map anyhow, perhaps as home to Havards jungles of Tangor...

Any particular reason why Lar wouldn't be Hak? Raiders of Karsh would be the Afridhi I guess?

I like the connection to the jungles. In the FFC they are only called the "Jungle Realm", while Tangor is my addition of course

-Havard

[aldarron]

Interesting. Looks like I'm going to have to get myself a copy of this book

okay, so the short list is:

island Duchy of Maritiz
Yerocunby
Faraaz
Nomad Raiders of the dry steppes of Lar

So,

Lar I take to be another name for the eastern Karsh. Kalastro is "southern" but will probably make it onto my map anyhow, perhaps as home to Havards jungles of Tangor...

Any particular reason why Lar wouldn't be Hak? Raiders of Karsh would be the Afridhi I guess?

I like the connection to the jungles. In the FFC they are only called the "Jungle Realm", while Tangor is my addition of course

-Havard

Hak popped into my mind fist too, but the full description is "Beyond that swelled the Great Kingdom of Blackmoor. To the left, or west, were mountains scattered in broken chains, dividing smaller kingdoms one from the other. Rivers, fed by tributaries, formed boundaries for many of these. This cluster of nations ended in such unknown
territories as the Dry Steppes which only the Nomad Raiders of Lar dared venture out upon (the few watering places therein being hereditary possessions of those clans.)"

So it seemed too desert like to be Hak proper. I think its more likely a "Ben Hassock" type group, which could be cousins of the Hak or could be something more arabesque.

I just downloaded the book myself after I discovered a free copy on google books. Full of typos, but free.

[Havard]

I just went ahead and ordered the Omnibus containing Quag Keep and Return to Quag Keep through Amazon

-Havard

[finarvyn]

I have both books and have only read the first one. I guess if I'm going to keep up I'll need to dust 'em off!

[Rafael]

Interesting. Looks like I'm going to have to get myself a copy of this book

okay, so the short list is:

island Duchy of Maritiz
Yerocunby
Faraaz
Nomad Raiders of the dry steppes of Lar

So,

Lar I take to be another name for the eastern Karsh. Kalastro is "southern" but will probably make it onto my map anyhow, perhaps as home to Havards jungles of Tangor...

Any particular reason why Lar wouldn't be Hak? Raiders of Karsh would be the Afridhi I guess?

I like the connection to the jungles. In the FFC they are only called the "Jungle Realm", while Tangor is my addition of course

-Havard

Hak popped into my mind fist too, but the full description is "Beyond that swelled the Great Kingdom of Blackmoor. To the left, or west, were mountains scattered in broken chains, dividing smaller kingdoms one from the other. Rivers, fed by tributaries, formed boundaries for many of these. This cluster of nations ended in such unknown
territories as the Dry Steppes which only the Nomad Raiders of Lar dared venture out upon (the few watering places therein being hereditary possessions of those clans.)"

So it seemed too desert like to be Hak proper. I think its more likely a "Ben Hassock" type group, which could be cousins of the Hak or could be something more arabesque.

I just downloaded the book myself after I discovered a free copy on google books. Full of typos, but free.

Ahem, one of the things you guys seem always to overlook is that things don't have to necessarily happen at the same time always.

I can only tell you so far that I have set Quag Keep at another point in time than between the FFC and the LFC.

But yeah, it's there, and with a lot of impact on the setting! :wink:

[Havard]

Via the OD&D Forum, I just came across a link to Erik Mona's research notes on QK.

Some things of relevance to Blackmoor:

Lichis, the Golden Dragon: An eons old dragon subscribing to the forces of Law, Lichis was supposed by many to control a vast amount of memories regarding that which would have otherwise faded into obscurity. The problem was finding him. The Great Lord of Oerthbound dragons, Lichis had long ago turned from the realm of man to take care of more important, and interesting matters.

One of mankind's bardsongs, "The Harrowing of Ironnose," told of a group of evil adepts from Blackmoor (a possible home of Han-gra-dan) who had summoned a Greater Demon with the intent of sundering the world. This malign individual, known as Ironnose, definately not his real name, ravaged Oerth from Blackmoor to the Wild Coast, cutting a swath of destruction in his wake. Lichis had destroyed the demon in combat over the Nyr Dyv and, though wounded, he flew to Blackmoor, which he destroyed to the rock. Of their great adepts, all were defeated leaving only a sense of malign evil that had kept even the most hardy of adventurers at bay to this day. After the battle, Lichis disappeared for a long period of time, nurturing his wounds. He never looked upon mankind in the same way again.

These evil adepts and the Gold Dragon might be worth reclaiming too...?


-Havard

[RobJN]

Via the OD&D Forum, I just came across a link to Erik Mona's research notes on QK.

Some things of relevance to Blackmoor:

Lichis, the Golden Dragon: An eons old dragon subscribing to the forces of Law, Lichis was supposed by many to control a vast amount of memories regarding that which would have otherwise faded into obscurity. The problem was finding him. The Great Lord of Oerthbound dragons, Lichis had long ago turned from the realm of man to take care of more important, and interesting matters.

One of mankind's bardsongs, "The Harrowing of Ironnose," told of a group of evil adepts from Blackmoor (a possible home of Han-gra-dan) who had summoned a Greater Demon with the intent of sundering the world. This malign individual, known as Ironnose, definately not his real name, ravaged Oerth from Blackmoor to the Wild Coast, cutting a swath of destruction in his wake. Lichis had destroyed the demon in combat over the Nyr Dyv and, though wounded, he flew to Blackmoor, which he destroyed to the rock. Of their great adepts, all were defeated leaving only a sense of malign evil that had kept even the most hardy of adventurers at bay to this day. After the battle, Lichis disappeared for a long period of time, nurturing his wounds. He never looked upon mankind in the same way again.

These evil adepts and the Gold Dragon might be worth reclaiming too...?


-Havard

That golden dragon sounds like Leansethar having a bad day.....

[ripvanwormer]

Any particular reason why Lar wouldn't be Hak? Raiders of Karsh would be the Afridhi I guess?

I like the connection to the jungles. In the FFC they are only called the "Jungle Realm", while Tangor is my addition of course

-Havard

Note that the Dry Steppes are labeled on the C&C Great Kingdom map; they're the same as (or, at least, equivalent to) the Dry Steppes in WotC/TSR's World of Greyhawk setting.

I assume that Kalastro is where the Sea of Dust is. It's equivalent to the Suel Imperium in TSR/WotC's World of Greyhawk, with the plague of fire being equivalent to the later-coined Rain of Colorless Fire.

Thanks to linking to Erik Mona's Quag Keep lorebook, by the way. Han-Gra-Dun was mentioned in Expedition to the Ruins of Greyhawk, but I had (foolishly) thought him to be a new character, not a Quag Keep reference! I've read Quag Keep, but it was ages ago.

The Northern Adepts of Old Blackmoor got mentioned in the Living Greyhawk Gazetteer, which suggested they were Ur-Flan sorcerers who created mounds and standing stones to constrain the Black Ice.

[Havard]

Note that the Dry Steppes are labeled on the C&C Great Kingdom map; they're the same as (or, at least, equivalent to) the Dry Steppes in WotC/TSR's World of Greyhawk setting.

I assume that Kalastro is where the Sea of Dust is. It's equivalent to the Suel Imperium in TSR/WotC's World of Greyhawk, with the plague of fire being equivalent to the later-coined Rain of Colorless Fire.

Sounds reasonable

Thanks to linking to Erik Mona's Quag Keep lorebook, by the way. Han-Gra-Dun was mentioned in Expedition to the Ruins of Greyhawk, but I had (foolishly) thought him to be a new character, not a Quag Keep reference! I've read Quag Keep, but it was ages ago.

How powerful is Han-Gra-Dun would you say? This would give us a clue to the power of Lichis. I am thinking Lichis could be one of the early spawns of Insellageth?

The Northern Adepts of Old Blackmoor got mentioned in the Living Greyhawk Gazetteer, which suggested they were Ur-Flan sorcerers who created mounds and standing stones to constrain the Black Ice.

Perhaps connected to the wizards who founded the Duchy of the Peaks?

-Havard