[ZGG Repost] Sourcebook on Thonia

[Havard]

http://mmrpg.zeitgeistgames.com/index.p ... opic&t=197

Rafe:

Hello,

I want Zeitgeist game to write a sourcebook on Thonia for me and my gaming group.


Shocked Wink

Really, are there any chances that this could be done, and if yes, then in the forseeable future?

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Me too! Very Happy

HÃ¥vard

PS: This place has been quiet lately, hasn't it? Lorenzo, Sheridan, the rest of you guys, where are you? Crying or Very sad

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Rafael:
Yeah... The Blackmoor Mailing List is far more crowded than the boards over here. Crying or Very sad

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Havard:
If you are just looking for the general geographical outline of Thonia, check out the latest maps on my website done by Lo Zompatore. Specifically this one:
http://www.geocities.com/havardfaa/Mystara_BC3200.jpg

It might give you some ideas. And yes, I am looking forward to more of your theories on the JG/BM connection. I am working on some maps myself that reconsiliate Mr. Zompatore's maps and The Wilderlands...

HÃ¥vard
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Rafe:
hank you! As you might already suspect, I know this material already,.although indeed, it was a brig help when I tried to get a general approach. (Al ye lurkers, check this out! Smile )

Yet, the one thing I would be happy to see from future products would be a general overview of Thonia at the time of the current BM books. Blackmoor depends so highly on that background, and there is nearly nothing known about it.

BTW, in David Ross' BM Gaz, he writes that Thonia was the name of a setting that was used back in the time of the Castles & Crusades Society. Do you happen to know what he could refer to?

Yours,

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Havard:
Yeah, it would be interesting. I see Thonia as a cross between the Roman Empire and those decandent civilized cultures from Conan.

Quote:
BTW, in David Ross' BM Gaz, he writes that Thonia was the name of a setting that was used back in the time of the Castles & Crusades Society. Do you happen to know what he could refer to?


I only know that the Castles & Crusades Society were sort of an early live RPG group, reenaciting medieval battles etc. I doubt that they had given the exact setting much thought, but rather "Thonia" would have been just a name they gave their "world", without developing it much further.

These are just speculations though. If they did have a more developed setting, this could provide us with some ideas for how to flesh out the empire further.

Another theory is that Thonia is just another name for the Kingdom of Karnak from the Wilderlands Setting. I dont know if that kingdom was ever detailed ever though, maybe you know more about that? I will be picking up my copy of the Wilderlands PHB on friday BTW Smile
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Havard:
That's interesting - my Thonia is nearly 100% like late imperial Rome as well.

As to what you say about the C&C society, very interesting. I'll ask one of the wises over at DF for a definite answer... This really intriguing...

havard wrote:

Another theory is that Thonia is just another name for the Kingdom of Karnak from the Wilderlands Setting. I dont know if that kingdom was ever detailed ever though, maybe you know more about that? I will be picking up my copy of the Wilderlands PHB on friday BTW Smile


And? What do you think of it?

I personally don't make BM and WL direct neighbours, but have the Kingdom of Karak border to a great desert, which borders to Thonia's south.
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Havard:
I was actually very happy with the Players Guide to the Wilderlands. I had no idea the setting would be so intriguing. All this talk of Old Skool and First Edition Feel actually made me think the setting was actually turning me off the setting a bit, but this all disappeared when I read through the book.

I like how the Wilderlands has a clear Sword&Sorcery feel, making it distinguish itself from most other settings. It should fit well with Blackmoor which also has some of these elements, yet is IMO distinctly different from the WL too. The technology aspect and certain Arthurian elements are the main things that I'd say make BM different from the WL.

I also have some room between the WL and Blackmoor. We can extend the Valley of the Ancients quite a bit so that is not much of a problem really. Also, the Kingdom of Karak's exact location is so vague we can move it around a bit. IMC I'm thinking perhaps it should border on Thonia though...

HÃ¥vard
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Rafe:

I still have that timeline in the making that shall reconcile both settings - I'll post it over here as soon as I can put it into a printable form. Smile

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Rafe:

Hehehe... I'll work on finishing that article as soon as two things are fulfilled:

1. I still have to finish my submission to the Footprints Mag at DF.

2. I still have to get a real idea of what is happening in BM's present day: Campaign year is 1032, if I am not mistaken. But what exactly has happened so far? Which MMRPG mod is canon, and which one not? Smile Gaah! Wink

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Havard:
Are you using Zimriel's timeline for reference at all?

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Rafe:
Yes. I have already completed the timeline, but want to put the things in a better form - like in a scale for Bardic Knowledge checks. Smile For my timeline I used Zimriel's notes, as well as what I found on your site, in combination with *official* BM d20 notes and a couple of othermaterials and modules, mainly what is found in the WL Box. - And some stuff from my own campaigns as well.

Did you already get lost in the wonderful world of the Wilderlands? Smile When my box arrived, the next two days were only RPG for me... Very Happy

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Havard:
Why dont you let us see your current version and then you can reorganize it after you get our feedback? Wink

I like the Bardic Knowledge organized format used in the Wilderlands box. Very neat!

Quote:
Did you already get lost in the wonderful world of the Wilderlands? Smile When my box arrived, the next two days were only RPG for me... Very Happy


Yeah, I was for a while! I love the setting, though the boxed set was a bit heavy on detail even for my tastes. Still, it was a great read. I love the ancient world feel the setting has.

Since my Blackmoor has taken a more steampunk heavy turn, I am wondering how ideally the settings would work together though. Travelling into the Wilderlands from Blackmoor would definately take the campaign to a different turn. Still, that could be interesting too...
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Falconer:
Since the "Great Kingdom" of the Blackmoor setting has a common origin with the "Great Kingdom" of the Greyhawk setting, why not look at some of the material for the latter to flesh out the former? There's Rob Kuntz's Maze of Zayene series (Prisoners of the Maze, Dimensions of Flight, Tower Chaos, and The Eight Kings) and The Fate of Istus as well as Carl Sargent's monumental Ivid the Undying. That's what I use! Regards.

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Gsvenson:
In fact, in the early days sometimes our characters traveled across the Great Kingdom from Blackmoor to Greyhawk and back when we went down to visit Gary in Lake Geneva in real life. I can vaguely remember doing that. Seems to me we flew down on tarn back (the "Tarnsman of Gore" series was popular at the time).
Greg

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Havard:

Good idea! My only reason for not going down that path earlier is the amount of information I would have to go through to familiarize myself with Greyhawk. Your list make things alot easier though. How would you sum up Greyhawk's Great Kingdom in a few words?

Note that I don't use the Wilderlands as Thonia IMC. Rather, the Wilderlands lay west of Thonia.

Greg:
-That sounds sweet! So Svenny has wrecked havoc in the lands of Greyhawk as well? Smile
- Re: Tarnsman of Gor: yikes! *hides under the table* Shocked

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Rafe:

Why dont you let us see your current version and then you can reorganize it after you get our feedback?

Since I do most of my stuff in handwriting, I can only present you the very very very first rough sketch I did, with many open gaps etc. The bardic knowledge is not applied still, but I am sure that I'll be able to do the latest updates ther some time soon.

Since my Blackmoor has taken a more steampunk heavy turn, I am wondering how ideally the settings would work together though. Travelling into the Wilderlands from Blackmoor would definately take the campaign to a different turn. Still, that could be interesting too...

I mix the panteons, and have many NPCs travelling between the settings... A lot of stuff, really... So, for example, in my next campaign set in Damkina, I'll have a certain "Mr. Zvenzen" star as a special ambassador from the northern lands...

(the "Tarnsman of Gore" series was popular at the time).

:?: :wink:

I am currently working out something for Thonia for my gaming group - some parts of the Greyhawkian Great Kingdom exist there, like the Twin Cities or the Adri Forest, as well as Kalstrand.

Let's see how my reconicilliation article works - maybe I'll include it there...


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Rafe:
Smile Well, you aksed for it, Havard - here's a first version of the timeline I wrote around Christmas. The timeline itself has been reworked in the meantime, and a section concernign gods and NPCs has been added... Let's hope I get it done soon...


[BCCC=JG Calendar] [NG=Northern Calendar; used instead of the usual BC counting system, or TC= Thonian Calendar]

Published modules included in this timeline:
DA2
DA3
DA4
Penumbra: Maiden Voyage
Ties That Bind
Blackmoor d20 Campaign Setting
Wizard’s Cabal
Blood Enemies: Abominations of Cerilia
PG Wilderlands
Wilderlands of High Fantasy Boxed Set
Caverns of Thracia
Ghostwalk
Losing Focus

Fan material included in this timeline:
Ross, David: Zimriel’s Blackmoor Gazetteer, n. d.
The Grim Winter PbP

Proto History

For this very earliest period of history, I simply use the material presented in Necromancer Games’ Wilderlands Box; for this era is of minimal, if of any importance for my games. Still, the approach presented by NG for JG#s Wilderlands sounds intriguing and detailed enough that I may use it without problem if needed.

Pre-History

-43300 BCCC End of the Uttermost War [-46703 NC]

-20500 BCCC End of the Demon Wars. [-23903 NC]

Earliest History

-8567 BCCC Founding of the city state of Kelnore. [-11970 NC]

-5033 BCC Era of the Reptillions in the Northen Marches. Founding of the city, on whose ruins
Thracia will later be build. [-8436 NC]

-4957 BCCC End of Kelnore’s Golden Era. [-8360 NC]

-3721 BCCC End of the Kelnoran Empire. [-7124 NC]

-575 BCCC Destruction of the Dragon Empire. [-3979 NC]

101 BCCC Followers of Armadad Bog found the city of Viridistan. [-3302 NC]

1101 BCCC First human settlers from the south, mainly the Ebony Coast, cross the Valley of the Ancients
and settle in the ruins of the old Reptillion cities in the swamps. [2302 BCCC]

1433 BCCC City of Thracia becomes the cultural centre of humanity north of the Valley of the Ancients.
[-1970 NC}

3075 BCCC Normoot founded on the Ruins of Ryan.
Later known as “The City State of the Invincible Overlordâ€