Provinces of the Great Kingdom

[Havard]

Nono, I agree with you completely there.

I assumed we were in agreement. I just wanted to point out that what you said could be intepreted differently

However, I would certainly welcome it if we would concentrate on more things that have direct effects on the game -
like the detailing of the provinces, for example. At the same time, we have developed sucha level of metadiscussion,
that we always ask first "would Arneson have done that" before we go to the actual designing process,
that it is increasingly difficult for us to accept fresh ideas.

Like, most of the MMRPG episodes, or "The Redwood Scar", the one published adventure for BM in the ZG era,
are really, really generic in nature, and could be set anywhere. - Would you guys accept that kind of stuff if it didn't come with the
official logo? :wink:

I don't think so.

I think you have a point here. OTOH, I do think that published material (as opposed to more obscure things) serve a function that they are a common point of reference for fans. If we want to include anyone else in our conversations besides the 3 people posting in this thread, it would be natural to assume that the people interested in using our ideas are people who like the D20 line, the FFC and the DA modules.

If we come up with ideas that render any of those books useless, then those ideas from us will be less interesting for other Blackmoor fans. So in that sense, I think it does matter that the Blackmoor logo is printed on the cover, even if the products can sometimes be fairly generic.

But I do agree that it can be taken too far, especially if it becomes so crippling that even great ideas are rejected. I also think that the MMRPG is a special case. While it would be cool to accomodate it, it was specified by ZGG that the events in the MMRPG were only semi-official in nature.


-Havard

[aldarron]

If we come up with ideas that render any of those books useless, then those ideas from us will be less interesting for other Blackmoor fans. So in that sense, I think it does matter that the Blackmoor logo is printed on the cover, even if the products can sometimes be fairly generic.

Wisdom in that, I'd say. One way to deal with that is to shift time periods, as the age of the wolf was doing, frex. I'd think going backward would be the easiest route, for example to the time of the mage wars.

[Havard]

Unstickied, but feel free to keep this discussion going

-Havard

[Rafael]

Bumping this, because I am interested in changed perceptions on the topic:

Any new ideas?

[Rafael]

Which other options exist:

7. Richard Snider's Duchies. Originally I thought the 8 Duchies from Richard Sniders campaign mentioned in the FFC could be 8 provinces, but perhaps it would be better to have them be one province made up of 8 small duchies? I might call this one Partusia, after the biggest duchy.

...

9. Salik: As in the Gin of. I think Aldarron was the first to suggest this could be a realm. Either a province or an independent realm. Mentioned in the FFC.

...

As to Greyhawk, I think something like that should exist, but it would be a city, not a province. I might take the Paizo route and just refer to it as the Free City, although Dunfalcon, Gaxmoor, Eagledark etc could work as well.

Okaaaaaaaaaaaay, so the cat's out of the bag: I am working on a GK Gaz for the Age of Theodore.

My next effort will be "The Great Bay" (think of the C&C map), and the focus will be on the Sniders and their descendants.
The areas I want to describe are Patursia (correct spelling as per FFC), Synobia, Palmyra and Ravilla (LFC offsprings), Salik, and perhaps Monkai.

In the heart of the Great Bay, I'd love to put a Greyhawk-like city; maybe Salik could be stand-in?

Essentially, if Theodore's Reunited Kingdom is the late Byzantine Empire, The Great Bay is the Italy of the Borgias.

That said, while the description of the lands west of Blackmoor goes pretty far from anything ever heard before,
I want the Great Bay area to be more in sync with canon and fanon.

Gentlemen, and ladies, one week before I'll complete the article. Please help me out in the meantime!

Any input is appreciated!

Yours,

Rafe

[Havard]

Sounds interesting.

My upcoming writeup of the Western Marsheswill probably have some overlap covering at Partusia, Monkai and Palmyra as three Wardenships (baronies) of that Province.

Of course I am working on this for the period of the ZGG books and DA modules (1025-1030) rather than the future era of your project.

My version of The Thonian Empire has the following on Synobia and Salik:

Synobia
This province is known for its spiritual people. The most important city is Brill, seat of the High Thonian Church. Clerics and Monks are common here.

Salik
This is a desert realm in the southern part of the Empire. Its rulers are powerful magic users worshipped as Gods by the people.

IMC Ravilla is named the Grey Woods, but I probably wont touch this for a long time.

So, overall looking forward to seeing what ideas you have for all of these. Perhaps further ideas generated from this thread can benefit both projects?


-Havard

[Rafael]

If you get this out any time soon, I'll be happy to wait up on you, in order to include some tidbits - to achieve at least a passing semblance of congruency. :wink:

Mainly, I would be looking for a Snider family tree; outside of that, I think very little canonical info exists.

But really, whatever you like, if you like to share.

- Synobia is the country that monks come from, right?

- But the bit about Salik is your interpretation, IIRC?

[Rafael]

Pardon, mdv*, writing in a haste.

*Yes, I just did that.

IMC Ravilla is named the Grey Woods, but I probably wont touch this for a long time.

Do with it whatever you like. It's a completely arbitrary borrowing I took from the WotC Chainmail mini-game,
with the only connection to BM really being that then I thought the Western Oerth map might be of interest.

As far as I see it, other than to supply our Known World with Elves, Ravilla really has no purpose IMC at the moment.

So, overall looking forward to seeing what ideas you have for all of these. Perhaps further ideas generated from this thread can benefit both projects?

Sure, that's the idea. Basically, after going hog-wild with the lands west of BM (or not so much; if you look at the events of our
actual games, it's always been there) I am looking now for a setting that is low-magic, and relatively stable.

The Great Blay, plus Geneva, and a few other human countries, form the core of the Reunited Kingdom,
and are, essentially, peaceful territories where mundane humans do largely mundane things, sort of like the Almorian lands
and Furyondy in Greyhawk, or Cormyr in FR.

I will spice it up, here and there (for example, Gin is still around), but this is largely as rotundly peaceful as the southern Kingdoms of Kalamar,
where an adventurer apparently has to kidnap the princesses himself to get a quest.

Note, though, that I am basing my geographical approach on the Gygaxian C&C map:

Meaning that the Great Bay is South-EAST of Blackmoor.




I have not really set things in stone, but supposedly Thonia, Geneva, and the core of the old empire are to the south of the Great Bay,
as in, Greyhawk's Great Kingdom.

That might be third entry, with a treatment of the more exotic lands (Imperial Tangoro!) being the fourth.

I have also a piece on the lands up north, but that will likely not be released with the campaign's start.

For the campaign itself, I am really just looking at this second piece on the Great Bay.
Whatever follows afterwards, I guess the players will dictate...

[Havard]

If you get this out any time soon, I'll be happy to wait up on you, in order to include some tidbits - to achieve at least a passing semblance of congruency. :wink:

Mainly, I would be looking for a Snider family tree; outside of that, I think very little canonical info exists.

But really, whatever you like, if you like to share.

I am in no way expecting you to wait for me. I just thought I would mention that my ongoing project will be touching on some of the same areas. I had not really thought about connecting the Snider familiy to this area, but I do like this idea.

Beyond that, I will be basing the Province of the Western Marshes on various tidbits from the FFC and the DA modules. There is a lot to go on if you only find a way to connect the many pieces of the puzzle. Of course, this also means there could be many interpretations and mine will only be one of them.

- Synobia is the country that monks come from, right?

Correct. That is all we know about it.

- But the bit about Salik is your interpretation, IIRC?

Certainly. It is derived from the description of the Gin of Salik from the FFC. Both the title Gin (Djinn?) and the fact that he travels on a Flying Carpet made me think of an Arabian Adventures style realm. I have recently come across some more hints to where this Gin character may have originated from, but I will need to investigate that further before I can make any more specific claims.

Pardon, mdv*, writing in a haste.

*Yes, I just did that.

Didn't get that one :oops:

Note, though, that I am basing my geographical approach on the Gygaxian C&C map:

Meaning that the Great Bay is South-EAST of Blackmoor.

This is probably a place where our projects will diverge a bit. I have been working on consolidating some of the C&C map features into my Great Thonia map, but I will probably not use it wholesale. As lit looks now, the Great Bay will probably simply be the Bay of Blackmoor and not much more than that.

Atmosphere-wise the region may also be a bit different, but that would be due to the different time periods we are dealing with. I will be describing the Thonian Empire during the reign of Iyx I, a period where Thonia is basically controlled by evil rulers, even if many of its inhabitants are good people.


-Havard

[Rafael]

I am in no way expecting you to wait for me. I just thought I would mention that my ongoing project will be touching on some of the same areas. I had not really thought about connecting the Snider familiy to this area, but I do like this idea.

I guess we'll overlap anyway, as I cannot produce this kind of stuff endlessly.
The Great Bay will likely be completed this week, or the next, but after that, I guess I'll take a longer break.
- Also, because "Home of the Ancients" will need a few more writeups.

Beyond that, I will be basing the Province of the Western Marshes on various tidbits from the FFC and the DA modules. There is a lot to go on if you only find a way to connect the many pieces of the puzzle. Of course, this also means there could be many interpretations and mine will only be one of them.

Speaking about that, what about Rhun? Province, or separate country?

Certainly. It is derived from the description of the Gin of Salik from the FFC. Both the title Gin (Djinn?) and the fact that he travels on a Flying Carpet made me think of an Arabian Adventures style realm. I have recently come across some more hints to where this Gin character may have originated from, but I will need to investigate that further before I can make any more specific claims.

I am going full Thieves World on that one; the Gin is the shadow chancellor of the city he resides in, an ageless wizard who is trapped on this material plane for some unknown reason.

Pardon, mdv*, writing in a haste.

*Yes, I just did that.

MAI DEARRRR VAIKIN

Holy crap, we've gotten old, brother.

This is probably a place where our projects will diverge a bit. I have been working on consolidating some of the C&C map features into my Great Thonia map, but I will probably not use it wholesale. As lit looks now, the Great Bay will probably simply be the Bay of Blackmoor and not much more than that.

Yeah, I think the basic premise is to make Blackmoor playable. Whatever happens in the other provinces is just a backdrop,
at least for now. - I mean, Ruins so far is a mini-game, really. If we ever see Palmyra in-game, it will be around... 2025?

Atmosphere-wise the region may also be a bit different, but that would be due to the different time periods we are dealing with. I will be describing the Thonian Empire during the reign of Iyx I, a period where Thonia is basically controlled by evil rulers, even if many of its inhabitants are good people.

I look forward to your description; my own description of the Empire during Uther's age, I always set as needed,
and that was a blessing for the campaign. In the future, I'd like to have that more codified, though, because of the things that
are meant to come... :twisted: