"The Dungeons of Castle Blackmoor": ZGG, 2006.

[Big Mac]

GOOGLE IT, N00B! :twisted:

What, like this? :lol:

Hell, it's THE legendary textbook written by Dave Arneson himself, detailing nearly everything that became famous later, and the base for the entire line, including the form of the map etc.

Anything that you don't find in the other books, you find there.

I have heard of The First Fantasy Campaign, believe it or not. I learned about it from the-man-with-the-Facebook-halo over at The Piazza.

My closest comparison between The First Fantasy Campaign and the 3e Blackmoor books is from the Dragonlance campaign setting, where Dragonlance Adventures gives a lot of information and the 3e books from Margaret Weis Productions turn that into multiple books that expand on the concept.

(As well as a description of the ten first levels of the dungeon. )

Well here we come back to my original question. With decades to playtest the dungeon from The First Fantasy Campaign, Zeitguist Games should have been able to identify (and remove) any errors, as well as get Dave Arneson's notes about deeper levels (or bits to the side or whatever) and build a much better dungeon. But is that what they managed to do?

Or to put it another way, if you were going to run a game in the dungeons, would you start with The Dungeons of Castle Blackmoor and then add in stuff from The First Fantasy Campaign? Or would you start with The First Fantasy Campaign and then add in stuff from The Dungeons of Castle Blackmoor?

It's where I got the map for my original Blackmoor map - the one that says 1977 Blackmoor Map.

The DA1 and DA4 maps use this exact map, just adding more locations.

The new Castle Blackmoor book details the whole dungeon, right to the bottom - but you DON'T want to go there! hock:

Thanks for a good overview of the products that lead up to The Dungeons of Castle Blackmoor.

I guess now I'm wondering if the book gives me all the information from DA1 and DA4 or if I would need to buy those too.

A good rule of thumb is don't go lower than your character's level.

Hmm. Does that work with the d20 System levels (used in the new product line) or does it only hold true for BECMI's 36 (?) levels?

[Dave L]

Thanks for a good overview of the products that lead up to The Dungeons of Castle Blackmoor.

I guess now I'm wondering if the book gives me all the information from DA1 and DA4 or if I would need to buy those too.

A good rule of thumb is don't go lower than your character's level.

Hmm. Does that work with the d20 System levels (used in the new product line) or does it only hold true for BECMI's 36 (?) levels?

DA1 and DA4 don't deal with the dungeons at all.

As for the levels - I can't remember which book I read that in - I think it was the new book, so it would be d20 levels.

[Rafael]

(As well as a description of the ten first levels of the dungeon. )

Well here we come back to my original question. With decades to playtest the dungeon from The First Fantasy Campaign, Zeitguist Games should have been able to identify (and remove) any errors, as well as get Dave Arneson's notes about deeper levels (or bits to the side or whatever) and build a much better dungeon. But is that what they managed to do?

Very good thought there, mate!

A very interesting question!

I think Greg would maybe know about this; what I understand about BM in general is that the setting expanded by havign the characters move away from Blackmoor Town and to other places all over the map.

BM dungeon was probably just developed at the beginning, and later mostly left alone.

Or to put it another way, if you were going to run a game in the dungeons, would you start with The Dungeons of Castle Blackmoor and then add in stuff from The First Fantasy Campaign? Or would you start with The First Fantasy Campaign and then add in stuff from The Dungeons of Castle Blackmoor?

The FFC is not a gaming supplement among today's standards. In any case, I'd use DoCBM. But be aware that it is a very bare dungoen compared to modern ones. Clean level, move down. Clean level, move down.

[TheMystic]

Some quick comments.

This product was developed at a critical time for ZG. It was right at the time we moved into doing online games for pay.

Essentially, we had engaged a new line developer. The old line developer was still an author on the project. They didn't see eye to eye. Add to that the fact that we rushed to print and that the covers looked terribly dark and you've got an interesting outcome. I love this project, but frankly we could have and should have done alot better.

[Havard]

Some quick comments.

This product was developed at a critical time for ZG. It was right at the time we moved into doing online games for pay.

Essentially, we had engaged a new line developer. The old line developer was still an author on the project. They didn't see eye to eye. Add to that the fact that we rushed to print and that the covers looked terribly dark and you've got an interesting outcome. I love this project, but frankly we could have and should have done alot better.

Thanks for dropping by to comment on this Dustin!

I remember that you were getting some criticism about the cover back then, but that is ancient history now as far as I am concerned.

I agree that there are things about this book that could have been better, but I am also discovering more and more gems hidden within the book. Part of me wishes that the Dungeon had been split up into several products, but then again I am glad that it got published instead of ending up like Gary's dungeon...

Havard

[Rafael]

Hey Dustin!

Cool to have you back!

Please consider, we're not measuring your efforts, just the end result - and this on the obvious background that we generally like the books you put out.

I guess it's needless to say that in a thirteen-book series, there will be better and worse installments. I personally think the book itself would have needed a lot of polishing, but then again, I am glad you brought it to the printers even so.

Also, let's be honest, it's by far not as bad as many megadungeons I have seen for a higher price and from bigger publishers. (Talking of Wizbro books that refer to chapters that are not in the book.)

I think DoCBM got a fairly unfair treatment compared to what other crap people praised.

(Havard might recall that, apart from Spelljammer, one of the things I love to loathe most is Caste Zagyg - I mean the books not written by RJK.)

[ctimmins]

Could somebody please post up a *good* scan of the full cover that doesn't have glare, doesn't have keystone, and isn't zealously over-cropped? In good resolution? Like 1800+ pixel resolution?

One hundred places are selling this on the internet - and every single one of them uses the same awful picture in the OP of this thread.

[Zargon]

Could somebody send me a pdf copy?
Never saw it before :oops:

[Yaztromo]

Here it is: https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/51 ... -Blackmoor

[Persimmon]

New member here. Am I right in assuming that no one has yet done a conversion of this to B/X or OSE? It's cheap enough as a pdf that I might buy it anyway, but then I'd need to convert it myself unless any of the good people around here have already managed that.