Timeline Redux I: Ancient period

[aldarron]

What is the end goal of this project? -Havard

Good question. To have a timeline centered on original FFC material. Also I'm considering possible fanzine publication.

The idea of having the DAB books take preference over the DA modules still sounds strange to me,
-Havard

That's cool. The DA series has long held center stage and will certainly continue to for lots of folks. OTOH having the DAB books take precedence didn't seem so strange to Dave Arneson et al....

but it also seems like you are changing things from the timeline in the DAB books without any reference to said events in the FFC/Garbage Pits:
-Havard

No. Changes are very few from the 4eTFC timeline.

They consist of the redate of Uberstars mine to match the text as quoted - More on that in a bit.

Placing Robert I later (discussed below)

Ignoring the DA4 Tenian material where it conflicts with FFC Tenian material.

I think that's it.

As you know, I have placed this wizard's fate in the year 500, linking it too with the War against Id. Really it could have happened at any time.
-Havard

The record points to a period prior to Robert I because:
- the present castle was built by Robert I (FFC80:18)
- the present castle was built on three layers of ruins (referenced in the timeline)
- The Mad Wizard Lived "Long before the present castle was constructed." 4eTFC

Hence, while the dating is definetly debatable, it must predate Robert I. There are other supporting bits, but I'm too lazy to type it all.

398 –
A group of ambitious wizards found the Red Coven ...

David Ross places this in 500-525 range.
-Havard

Its just a guess on my part and on Ross's and could be that late. I chose 398 to imply a possible link to the destruction of the Mad Wizard.

I'm impressed with what Ross attempted to do. I'm not impressed with his results, there are a great many issues in his timeline when one really begins to review it critically. The "500-525 range" being one of them. Why this range here when none of the other dates are like that? The answer is that Ross repeatedly confused his start date. He worked from 1035 (by mistake), 1025, and 1000 and applied them inconsistently. The only reason it's 500 - 525 is because he was waffling on whether it should be 1025 - 500 or 1000 - 500.

440 -
Conquest and settlement by Robert I, king of All Geneva. He creates a ducal seat (assumed by later references to dukes) at “Blackmoor” and builds a fortification at Glendower (Rampart#10, presumed date) and builds Blackmoor Castle over the Cumasti and Mad Wizard ruins on Dragonsrock. (FFC80:17 Date must predate Temple of Id and post date Mad Wizard. FFC dates never exceed 5 or 6 centuries and there is no reason whatever to push back the date of Blackmoor castle further, creating centuries of empty history.

I disagree with this. It is a generally agreed upon fact that Robert I founded the Empire. This is specified in the D20 line to which you give preference.
-Havard

Yes, it too was once generally agreed that dinosaurs were reptiles and the sun circled the earth , until I see it in print in an "official" product, I'll suppose its okay to question recieved wisdom.

I've looked through all the written material I have and can't find anything saying Robert I founds the Thonian Empire - only that he founds blackmoor. I don't have everything though and will change the timeline if somebody can give me a quote.

Regarding the date, FFC 80:17 speaks of a "recorded history" prior to Robert. The only reference I've seen is in TFC timeline and there I choose to see it as imprecise - "sometime between 0 and 500". I know its a bit of handwaving on my part, but since, as far as I can tell, they were just copying a date Ross made up, I feel the implications of the FFC are more relevant.

I'm happy to be proven wrong though.

450 –
Uberstar Khazakhum establishes the Great Mines at Mount Uberstar. (DA1:63; 4eTFC:189 “nearly 600 years of mining”)

DA1 says nearly half a century. And the description of Uberstar as the ruler for 500 years. Ross places it in 500-525.
-Havard

Already criticised that 500-525 business above. :roll: For the founding of the mine, most sources say "more than 500" and the "nearly 600" quoted above. 1030 - 580 (nearly 600) or 1000 - 550 (more than 500) was an attempt to reconcile these statements.

474 –
Construction of the Temple of the Id. (FFC80:18, DoCBM:146 ”Worship of Id started shortly before the year 500.” date based on the supposition that the temple was not operational for more than a few decades )

Works, though it seems a bit early.
-Havard

Maybe a little? what would you suggest? Notice that the implication of the dates are that the Bloody Duke permitted or even sponsored the temple.

An Evil wizard imprisoned in a workshop he has constructed in The Wizard’s Pit. (FFC80:21)

Didn't you have another wizard be imprisoned there earlier?
-Havard[/quote]

nope :wink:

In general it doesnt really make sense to me to go against David Ross' Timeline unless there are references which specifically proves it to be wrong. David Ross' timeline was incorporated wholesale into the D20 line which means it was accepted by ZGG and probably this includes Arneson as well. Adding things is a different matter of course, but changing dates with only circumstantial evidence is a tough sell.

-Havard

If you check the references I gave against what Ross gives, you might be surprised. Also, the TFC timeline certainly does not accept Ross wholesale, a great deal of Ross was edit out or moved.