GenCon 1976: Tindell's Adventure in the Blackmoor Dungeon

[Havard]

[url=http://blackmoor.mystara.us/forums/viewtopic.php?f=22&p=13817#p13817"]Thanks to Heymikey's recent thread,[/url] I was reminded of the article from Alarums & Excursions #15 where Bill Paley relates the story of his character Tindell the Cleric in a game with Dave Arneson as the DM back in 1976. Unfortunately, it doesnt seem like Paley enjoyed this session very much, based on his descriptions. Still, I am glad that he decided to share his memories with us, because there are many interesting details found within.

Now, its going to be hard for me not to leap to Arneson's defense every second given my own bias, but lets remember this: Dave Arneson was not a God. Bad calls would sometimes have been made. Pleasing every player in every single gaming session is impossible, and hindsight being 20/20, things may have been handled differently had he known how some players would have responded. At the same time we have enough testaments to what a great DM Dave could be, so I dont think that the negative aspects in this description risk causing any harm to the man's reputation.

On the other hand, my analysis will not so much be about what went wrong and not, but more about other things that was revealed during that game:

The main reason I'm adding this extra bulk to an already weighty 'zine is to relate a bit of what occurred to me at GenCon IX in Lake Geneva, Wisconsin. I was returning home from my summer labors and stopped in Milwaukee. After teaching the relatives the wonders of D&D, we found out about the convention but an hour's drive away.

On Sunday, August 22nd, my cousin and I found ourselves outside Horticulture Hall, the seat of the convention. We perused displays of miniatures and such games as Banzai!, Boot Hill, Blue & Grey and others from the wargaming ranks. We found that Blackmoor was to be available to the first twelve entrants at 3:30. I found out that signups began at 2:45 and that (at 12:45) ten people were already in line. I grabbed the next spot. The wait was made bearable by the friendly atmosphere and the sudden appearance of the card game Nuclear War.

This is pretty interesting. How famous was Dave Arneson back in 1976? Since his name and Blackmoor is referenced so frequently in the OD&D days, perhaps he was better known then than in the decades that followed?

The expedition's prize for the "best" character was to be one year's subscription to the Dragon, but it was a very subjective prize. Upon arriving at the game, I found that several folks from Lake Geneva were added to the original twelve (though not competing). We rolled the six standard characteristics (sorry CalTech) and hit dice a la Men & Magic, but we were additionally allowed to roll a D4 for...LEVEL.

I wonder if this was not the first mistake made. I know it is not uncommon at Conventions, but I think that awarding prizes for RPG events is generally a bad idea, as it can shift the focus away from just having fun to "winning". One of the things I really like about RPGs in the first place is that it does not pit the players against eachother, but rather lets the players cooperate towards overcoming a common goal.

I rolled a cleric 10-11-14-11-10-9, Tindell. Unfortunately the #*&%¢$ die rolled a 1. (Nothing more useless than....) (Boy, did I miss Jock Root's tables, A&E 4). One of the Lake Geneva folks brought his 14th level Paladin--the Great Sweeney (apparently in case we ran into Sir Fang. I couldn't get no data on who this character (or monster) could be). When this occurred, I had a distinct shiver of fear course down my spine, but I decided that I would more likely learn something if I went and listened, than if I went and pretended to be a superhero.With a first level cleric, you either tend mules or die gloriously. (Surprise: we didn't take any mules! hint, hint.) There were two MUs , a third and a first, one hobbit thief (with a paladin! Good heavens!), one or two more clerics and a vast number of fighters. Things were so confused that I never really found anything else about them. Two dwarves, no elves.

The Great Sweeny is of course the Great Svenny played by Greg Svenson. I remember a previous discussion of this article where Greg said that he had no idea that the fact that he played his regular character would make one of the other players enjoy the game less. It should be noted that Greg or the other "Lake Geneva guys" did not take part in the competition, so they were really there as an asset to the other players. Personally I would have *loved* to play in a game DMed by Dave where Greg and others from Dave's group were part of the game, but I guess someone who isnt a Blackmoor fan might not appreciate this as much?

I do love Paley's description of Sir Fang however. It does seem like Arneson's narration did get him hooked at this point, so it cannot all have been bad.

Apparently Blackmoor Castle was destroyed during a battle actually played in Lake Geneva and over the hundred or so years ensuing the elves who took over ignored the increase of chaos beneath them. This led to the present difficulties.

100 years? Well, at least we know that this game took place during the FFC era when the elves guard the Castle.

The party went through various tests administered by the elves to try to make certain that we were not attempting to join the Chaotics below (drink holy water, touch silver crosses, etc.) We then entered a large odd-shaped room which I heard was once the throneroom of the castle, but had since changed shape. Many doors out of this chamber were found, leading to linen closets (with outhouse-style arrangements) and some leading to five-foot corridors.

I am intrigued by the tests the elves had the characters go through. Would those tests be employed by the elves in other areas as well? Why was there a real fear of other chaotics wanting to join those below? Does King Funk really inspire such awe among Chaotics around the world? Or Lord Fang? Interesting!

Also, the Throne Room has changed shape? Magically? Or through reconstruction?

We finally chose one such corridor (with some trepidation; walking single file can be dangerous!) after a drunken fighter named Richard leaped into a linen closet and tripped...We walked along it a bit until it widened to ten feet (apparently a major disaster collapsed the room and the area was repaired to different specifications).

The drunken fighter is of course Bozero! Did Richard Snider play his brother's character, or does Rossi confuse the two? Perhaps both Sniders were at the table?

At this point (having no graph paper), Tindell became lost. He vaguely recalls walking down a long corridor and then turning back when the ceiling started becoming quite wet. The group also burst into a room of goblins who fought tenaciously (Tindell racks up two!) until they caught sight of "the Great Sweeney." They instantly recognized him and immediately dropped weapons, etc., and ran like...er. heaven was after them. We pursued and killed a couple more and then found a door held closed by an ogre's body. We shoved our way in and continued exploration. Tindell brightly suggested spiking a door open and the group woke up...ten people began spiking it. Ho hum.

Svenny would have a reputation among Goblin folks given his history in the Dungeon. No wonder they fled when they saw him

Finally we came to an open stairway with circular stairs down which we heard music playing. Richard stumbled down the stairs immediately. The rest of the group halted and tried to decide to follow him or not, Tindell urging them on. As we walked down, we heard the orc national anthem (don't blame me; it's Arneson's dungeon; how could orcs have one nation?) played backwards. This brought a horde of orcs on us from in front. While we battled (and Sweeney worked his way forward) ten of the fifty ran off. Soon after, thirty hit us in the rear as well. The battle was fierce with wounds exchanged rapidly on both sides, but when Sweeney appeared up front, again the orcs ran off. Arneson stated: "Sweeney, in a whirlwind, has just killed 17 orcs in this melee round" (!) (Not only that, no one else was allowed to pursue. I'm still confused about this.)

The details of Richard/Bozero are too funny!
The Orcish "national" anthem is of course Rule Britannia, which can be heard when descending down the "Orcian Way" as Aldarron mentioned in this thread.

Is the idea of an Orc nation so absurd? I know several settings have Orc Kingdoms. I think that the idea of Funk's Rulership over all Orcs could probably be compared to the High Kings of Ireland though. While it would have little every day impact on the various Orc tribes, Funk could use his status to rally the tribes in times of war.

In the rear one fighter died and nearly everyone was wounded. At this point, I showed my ignorance. Coming from an LA dungeon (distinct from Bay Area) I was used to multiple spell casting capabilities and asked why our first level MU didn't throw sleep his second time. (The third level MU never threw anything!) The howls of shocked amazement nearly caused me to hide under the table. I rapidly learned "the right way" to play MUs.

As blogger Sham points out at the blog where Paley's story was reprinted, it is interesting that there were different rules conventions in the LA Dungeon scene, the Bay Area scene etc based on different interpretations of the rules.

After Sweeney "feared" the others, we slew all but one slept orc and questioned the remaining one. He told us Richard had come down the stairs, taken one look at the horde and run back up, disappearing. Figuring that he lied, our dwarves dismembered him.

What happened to Richard? Did he leave the game at this point?

On exploring this level, we entered a room, finding some 12 "heroes" in plate with crossbows. We found they were not chaotic and not friendly, so we left. A bit farther on, we found a room full of gold. Sweeney and some of the lawfuls stayed out, but Tindell entered to investigate a gold statue (perhaps a religious article?). When Tindell realized that the others were merely filling their packs with gold, he complained loudly and ordered them to leave his "share" behind. A number of other lawfuls agreed but not many.

Interesting!
Who were these heroes? Other adventurers exploring the dungeon? I guess it was a popular adventuring location. What was this God statue? I need to see if it was included in the D20 version of the Dungeon.

We began to return the way we had come when we came across some of the "heroes" playing craps. Two of our neutrals joined in, trying to win more gold. When the remainder of the party tried to pass, they found themselves taken under custody. Apparently the treasure room was the Heroes'. After many denunciations ("He did it," "No, he did it.") the heroes sent some men to find how much we'd stolen. At this point, they once again found Sweeney with two dwarves and a cleric. Genuflecting to Sweeney, they asked his permission to search the dwarves . A dwarf offered to fight to the death, winner takes treasure. Scratch one dwarf. THEY LEFT THE BODY BEHIND! The other dwarf surrendered. We were handed over to the custody of Sweeney.

I wonder if there was more to this story that Paley realized. Did the heroes have reason to know Svenny besides his reputation?

We soon found ourselves at the magic stairway. At this point Sweeney teleported out of the dungeon (!) and left us behind. As we climbed up, we found that the stairs went up higher than we thought. Testing for illusions didn't work. We walked all the way up, where we found a trap door. Opening it revealed blue sky. We began to climb out, first the MUI, then Tindell.

The DM led me out. "As you climb out, you see blue sky above you, then around you, and then the trapdoor winks out and you have a gorgeous view of Blackmoor Castle and the lake below you, 200 feet. What are you doing?" "Stripping off my armor as fast as I can." "Very good, I'll only give you one hit die damage. How many hit points do you have?" "Four." What did the die roll up? 4." So Tindell's in unconsciousness. Glub, glub.

Don't ask me what happened to anyone else. I left rather than give it away. Somebody did ask if I got wet though.

Paley seems bitter about Tindell's fate. Perhaps he should have stayed and seen how the session ended?

-Havard

[aldarron]

Great analysis Havard!

[url=http://blackmoor.mystara.us/forums/viewtopic.php?f=22&p=13817#p13817"]Thanks to Heymikey's recent thread,[/url]
.....

Apparently Blackmoor Castle was destroyed during a battle actually played in Lake Geneva and over the hundred or so years ensuing the elves who took over ignored the increase of chaos beneath them. This led to the present difficulties.

100 years? Well, at least we know that this game took place during the FFC era when the elves guard the Castle.

Yeah, as John Snider has pointed our and I think Greg too, the original campaign had gone into stasis in 1975 and that meant Fang was still a vampire and Blackmoor Castle was abandoned. I don't think that changed till Dave started to think about publishing balckmoor again in the mid '80's.

The party went through various tests administered by the elves to try to make certain that we were not attempting to join the Chaotics below (drink holy water, touch silver crosses, etc.) We then entered a large odd-shaped room which I heard was once the throneroom of the castle, but had since changed shape. Many doors out of this chamber were found, leading to linen closets (with outhouse-style arrangements) and some leading to five-foot corridors.

I am intrigued by the tests the elves had the characters go through. Would those tests be employed by the elves in other areas as well? Why was there a real fear of other chaotics wanting to join those below? Does King Funk really inspire such awe among Chaotics around the world? Or Lord Fang? Interesting!

Also, the Throne Room has changed shape? Magically? Or through reconstruction?

Tests, including drinking Holy water "provided at bargain rates by the church of the facts of life run by bishop Carr" are mentioned in the FFC under "Elves"

The throne room referred to is the "basement" and was remodeled, both the open map and throne room map are given in the FFC.

We finally chose one such corridor (with some trepidation; walking single file can be dangerous!) after a drunken fighter named Richard leaped into a linen closet and tripped...We walked along it a bit until it widened to ten feet (apparently a major disaster collapsed the room and the area was repaired to different specifications).

The drunken fighter is of course Bozero! Did Richard Snider play his brother's character, or does Rossi confuse the two? Perhaps both Sniders were at the table?

At this point (having no graph paper), Tindell became lost. He vaguely recalls walking down a long corridor and then turning back when the ceiling started becoming quite wet. The group also burst into a room of goblins who fought tenaciously (Tindell racks up two!) until they caught sight of "the Great Sweeney." They instantly recognized him and immediately dropped weapons, etc., and ran like...er. heaven was after them. We pursued and killed a couple more and then found a door held closed by an ogre's body. We shoved our way in and continued exploration. Tindell brightly suggested spiking a door open and the group woke up...ten people began spiking it. Ho hum.

Svenny would have a reputation among Goblin folks given his history in the Dungeon. No wonder they fled when they saw him

Finally we came to an open stairway with circular stairs down which we heard music playing. Richard stumbled down the stairs immediately. The rest of the group halted and tried to decide to follow him or not, Tindell urging them on. As we walked down, we heard the orc national anthem (don't blame me; it's Arneson's dungeon; how could orcs have one nation?) played backwards. This brought a horde of orcs on us from in front. While we battled (and Sweeney worked his way forward) ten of the fifty ran off. Soon after, thirty hit us in the rear as well. The battle was fierce with wounds exchanged rapidly on both sides, but when Sweeney appeared up front, again the orcs ran off. Arneson stated: "Sweeney, in a whirlwind, has just killed 17 orcs in this melee round" (!) (Not only that, no one else was allowed to pursue. I'm still confused about this.)

The details of Richard/Bozero are too funny!
The Orcish "national" anthem is of course Rule Britannia, which can be heard when descending down the "Orcian Way" as Aldarron mentioned in this thread.

Is the idea of an Orc nation so absurd? I know several settings have Orc Kingdoms. I think that the idea of Funk's Rulership over all Orcs could probably be compared to the High Kings of Ireland though. While it would have little every day impact on the various Orc tribes, Funk could use his status to rally the tribes in times of war.

I think "nation" here is used in the sense of a united group of tribes as is common for Native Americans e.g. Sioux Nation, Cherokee Nation, etc. Midwesterners are likely to understand it that way.

In the rear one fighter died and nearly everyone was wounded. At this point, I showed my ignorance. Coming from an LA dungeon (distinct from Bay Area) I was used to multiple spell casting capabilities and asked why our first level MU didn't throw sleep his second time. (The third level MU never threw anything!) The howls of shocked amazement nearly caused me to hide under the table. I rapidly learned "the right way" to play MUs.

As blogger Sham points out at the blog where Paley's story was reprinted, it is interesting that there were different rules conventions in the LA Dungeon scene, the Bay Area scene etc based on different interpretations of the rules.

After Sweeney "feared" the others, we slew all but one slept orc and questioned the remaining one. He told us Richard had come down the stairs, taken one look at the horde and run back up, disappearing. Figuring that he lied, our dwarves dismembered him.

What happened to Richard? Did he leave the game at this point?

On exploring this level, we entered a room, finding some 12 "heroes" in plate with crossbows. We found they were not chaotic and not friendly, so we left. A bit farther on, we found a room full of gold. Sweeney and some of the lawfuls stayed out, but Tindell entered to investigate a gold statue (perhaps a religious article?). When Tindell realized that the others were merely filling their packs with gold, he complained loudly and ordered them to leave his "share" behind. A number of other lawfuls agreed but not many.

Interesting!
Who were these heroes? Other adventurers exploring the dungeon? I guess it was a popular adventuring location. What was this God statue? I need to see if it was included in the D20 version of the Dungeon.

"Hero" here no doubt refers to 4th level fighters. I think them may have been a wandering monster roll. Tried to get at the location in this thread http://odd74.proboards.com/index.cgi?bo ... hread=4666 as you may recall.

[finarvyn]

An amazing story. I just love to read about Dave's dungeoncraft back "in the day" and this story is really cool since it does contain hints as to elements we've seen in the FFC.

I love the part about the orcs seeing Greg and running! :lol:

[gsvenson]

An amazing story. I just love to read about Dave's dungeoncraft back "in the day" and this story is really cool since it does contain hints as to elements we've seen in the FFC.

I love the part about the orcs seeing Greg and running! :lol:

I am afraid that I had developed a bit of a reputation with the orcs by that time...

[Havard]

An amazing story. I just love to read about Dave's dungeoncraft back "in the day" and this story is really cool since it does contain hints as to elements we've seen in the FFC.

I love the part about the orcs seeing Greg and running! :lol:

I am afraid that I had developed a bit of a reputation with the orcs by that time...

Hehe!
Understandable given your history with those guys

-Havard

[DungeonDevil]

Absolute charming account!

I wonder if this was not the first mistake made. I know it is not uncommon at Conventions, but I think that awarding prizes for RPG events is generally a bad idea, as it can shift the focus away from just having fun to "winning". One of the things I really like about RPGs in the first place is that it does not pit the players against eachother, but rather lets the players cooperate towards overcoming a common goal.

I agree. RPGs and Wargaming in competitive conventions create a lot of bad blood and frustration over hobbies which revolve around confusing rules with lots of clashing interpretations and implementations. It's best to remove the competitional aspect and just have fun with like-minded folks.

Great Sweeney

Obviously the Great Svenny.

one hobbit thief (with a paladin! Good heavens!)

Mello?
-------------------
Hmm, maybe Svenny automatically triggers a morale check (fear check) among any orcs and goblins in the vicinity.
------------------
This Bozero is new to me. Is he mentioned in the FFC?
-------------------

I think that the idea of Funk's Rulership over all Orcs could probably be compared to the High Kings of Ireland though.

That's exactly what I envision! Maybe there is an Orcish Lia Fail that one has to stand on to see if one will become the Ard Ri! :lol:
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Svenny teleported?! hock: How? I'm guessing it was a magic-item.
-----------------------

Very entertaining! Thanks for posting it and your great analysis!

[Havard]

I agree. RPGs and Wargaming in competitive conventions create a lot of bad blood and frustration over hobbies which revolve around confusing rules with lots of clashing interpretations and implementations. It's best to remove the competitional aspect and just have fun with like-minded folks.

Yep. I used to think I didnt like the winning aspect of the game, but I do like winning in the sense of working as a team overcoming the obstacles set up by the DM, but not the competition between the players.

one hobbit thief (with a paladin! Good heavens!)

Mello?

Good observation! I wasnt sure if this was one of Arneson's friend or just someone signed up for the game at the Convention.

-------------------
Hmm, maybe Svenny automatically triggers a morale check (fear check) among any orcs and goblins in the vicinity.
------------------

Would be a good way of handling it.

This Bozero is new to me. Is he mentioned in the FFC?
-------------------

Bozero is a known nickname for John Snider. In the FFC I think he is only referred to along with his brother as "the Sniders". In DA1 the Sniders are detailed separately as "Bozero the Drunkard" and "Brother Richard the Flying Monk".

I think that the idea of Funk's Rulership over all Orcs could probably be compared to the High Kings of Ireland though.

That's exactly what I envision! Maybe there is an Orcish Lia Fail that one has to stand on to see if one will become the Ard Ri! :lol:

8)

-----------------------
Svenny teleported?! hock: How? I'm guessing it was a magic-item.
-----------------------

I'm guessing that too.

Very entertaining! Thanks for posting it and your great analysis!

Thanks!

-Havard

[Havard]

Do we have enough information to stat out Tindell? I'd like to use him as an NPC

-Havard

[aldarron]

[url=http://blackmoor.mystara.us/forums/viewtopic.php?f=22&p=13817#p13817"]

I rolled a cleric 10-11-14-11-10-9, Tindell. Unfortunately the #*&%¢$ die rolled a 1.

The party went through various tests administered by the elves to try to make certain that we were not attempting to join the Chaotics below (drink holy water, touch silver crosses, etc.)

When Tindell realized that the others were merely filling their packs with gold, he complained loudly and ordered them to leave his "share" behind. A number of other lawfuls agreed but not many.

We began to return the way we had come when we came across some of the "heroes" playing craps. Two of our neutrals joined in, trying to win more gold.

"Stripping off my armor as fast as I can."

How many hit points do you have?" "Four."

-Havard

Tindell, Cleric Level 1
Lawful Good (passed the tests, mentions "other lawfuls, didn't join the neutrals in craps)

Strength 10
Intelligence 11
Wisdom 14 (no first level spell)
Constitution 11
Dexterity 10
Charisma 9

Armor Class: 5 (chainmail)

Hit Points: 4

Equipment:
Spikes, Mace

Personality: Bold, Inquisitive

[Havard]

Excellent work Aldarron!

I wonder how I should work this character into my campaign. Which deity would he follow I wonder?

-Havard