11-24-2009, 06:29 AM
http://mmrpg.zeitgeistgames.com/index.p ... opic&t=260
Havard:
Over at dragonsfoot.org we are discussing the differences between the two existing versions of the Temple of the Frog and making speculations about what ZGG's TotF will be like. Here are some of my thoughts:
Looking at Stephen Rock from the original module, it is left to interpretation what his exact nature is. He could be either of interstellar or interplanar origin (or both), though his equipment does suggest that it is high tech. It is also stated that he was part of a group sent to Blackmoor to police against other outsiders, but now is working for himself. Now, this doesnt entirely fit with the Beagle crew, since they, according to DA3 crashed there, but otherwise it sounds to me like David Ritchie was doing a pretty good job at expanding on Arneson's original concepts.
Space Aliens were part of Arneson's Blackmoor, and they have an even stronger presence in the Wilderlands setting, which had an impact on Blackmoor when it was published by the Judges Guild.
OTOH, it should be easy to replace aliens with Outsiders from other planes be they demons or more interestingly some other outer planar group (Diaboli?).
I suspect the upcoming TotF deals with the Temple before the arrival of Stephen Rocklin. Perhaps the heroes are sent to clear out the Temple after froglin are found sneaking around in Blackmoor town? I really liked that Froglin illustration from the main DAB book.
Rob Kuntz's recollections of his game with Gary and Dave in the City of the Gods could also shed some light on Dave's original visions of all this:
http://www.greyhawkonline.com/canonfire/OJ_06.pdf
Thoughts on any of this?
Which version of TotF do people prefer, and why?
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Falconer:
I always got the strong impression that the "outer space" of Blackmoor was meant to be more or less the universe of Star Trek. What you say about policing the planet from outsiders seems to point to the Prime Directive, and the "U.S.S." Beagle is clearly another clue.
I wish I could contribute in a more meaningful way to this discussion. I do own DA2 and have looked through it with an eye towards running it soon, but my instincts are that I will have to scrap it in favor of the Supplement II version. My Blackmoor is based on FFC, anyway (as opposed to DA1 or DABM), so the original Temple will be more along the lines of what I'm looking for, in the first place. Really what turns me off of DA2 is the extensive post-DL style of extended "storytelling" early in the module and present throughout. Rather than simply present the dungeon for exploration and leaving it up to the DM and players how it turns out, DA2 seems to come with its own prepackaged idea of how exactly this locale should be utilized and how the adventure should turn out. I think I'll mine DA2 for ideas and perhaps use its maps, but from what I've seen, the original is more along the lines of what I'm looking for.
Besides, if you're going to run the first scenario ever published, why not run it AS ORIGINALLY PUBLISHED? :-) Regards.
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Desdichado:
TotF is on my list of adventures to play -but rather than to wait for a new version from ZG, I will indeed use the legendary Supplement II - and work my very own campaign out of it. Twisted Evil
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Havard:
This is very clear in the DA series yes, but slightly more obscured in the Supplement II version, wouldnt you agree? BTW its FSS Beagle, not USS. Still, when the F stands for Federation that doesnt make it any less Star Trek-ish does it? Wink
The main advantage of DA2 is that there is just so much more stuff in there! Ofcourse, the whole setup probably doesnt work very well for most DMs, but its easily scrapped or replaced. Speaking of mining modules, I've found that modules are most successfully run (at least by me) when I change them enough to make them feel like my own. That makes it easier to improvise. I dont long for the days when published modules were just dungeons since I can make that part myself, while coming up with plots and things are not that easy. For me anyway Smile
************************************
-Havard
Havard:
Over at dragonsfoot.org we are discussing the differences between the two existing versions of the Temple of the Frog and making speculations about what ZGG's TotF will be like. Here are some of my thoughts:
Looking at Stephen Rock from the original module, it is left to interpretation what his exact nature is. He could be either of interstellar or interplanar origin (or both), though his equipment does suggest that it is high tech. It is also stated that he was part of a group sent to Blackmoor to police against other outsiders, but now is working for himself. Now, this doesnt entirely fit with the Beagle crew, since they, according to DA3 crashed there, but otherwise it sounds to me like David Ritchie was doing a pretty good job at expanding on Arneson's original concepts.
Space Aliens were part of Arneson's Blackmoor, and they have an even stronger presence in the Wilderlands setting, which had an impact on Blackmoor when it was published by the Judges Guild.
OTOH, it should be easy to replace aliens with Outsiders from other planes be they demons or more interestingly some other outer planar group (Diaboli?).
I suspect the upcoming TotF deals with the Temple before the arrival of Stephen Rocklin. Perhaps the heroes are sent to clear out the Temple after froglin are found sneaking around in Blackmoor town? I really liked that Froglin illustration from the main DAB book.
Rob Kuntz's recollections of his game with Gary and Dave in the City of the Gods could also shed some light on Dave's original visions of all this:
http://www.greyhawkonline.com/canonfire/OJ_06.pdf
Thoughts on any of this?
Which version of TotF do people prefer, and why?
***********************************
Falconer:
I always got the strong impression that the "outer space" of Blackmoor was meant to be more or less the universe of Star Trek. What you say about policing the planet from outsiders seems to point to the Prime Directive, and the "U.S.S." Beagle is clearly another clue.
I wish I could contribute in a more meaningful way to this discussion. I do own DA2 and have looked through it with an eye towards running it soon, but my instincts are that I will have to scrap it in favor of the Supplement II version. My Blackmoor is based on FFC, anyway (as opposed to DA1 or DABM), so the original Temple will be more along the lines of what I'm looking for, in the first place. Really what turns me off of DA2 is the extensive post-DL style of extended "storytelling" early in the module and present throughout. Rather than simply present the dungeon for exploration and leaving it up to the DM and players how it turns out, DA2 seems to come with its own prepackaged idea of how exactly this locale should be utilized and how the adventure should turn out. I think I'll mine DA2 for ideas and perhaps use its maps, but from what I've seen, the original is more along the lines of what I'm looking for.
Besides, if you're going to run the first scenario ever published, why not run it AS ORIGINALLY PUBLISHED? :-) Regards.
************************************
Desdichado:
TotF is on my list of adventures to play -but rather than to wait for a new version from ZG, I will indeed use the legendary Supplement II - and work my very own campaign out of it. Twisted Evil
********************************
Havard:
This is very clear in the DA series yes, but slightly more obscured in the Supplement II version, wouldnt you agree? BTW its FSS Beagle, not USS. Still, when the F stands for Federation that doesnt make it any less Star Trek-ish does it? Wink
The main advantage of DA2 is that there is just so much more stuff in there! Ofcourse, the whole setup probably doesnt work very well for most DMs, but its easily scrapped or replaced. Speaking of mining modules, I've found that modules are most successfully run (at least by me) when I change them enough to make them feel like my own. That makes it easier to improvise. I dont long for the days when published modules were just dungeons since I can make that part myself, while coming up with plots and things are not that easy. For me anyway Smile
************************************
-Havard
Currently Running: The Blackmoor Vales Saga
Currently Playing: Daniel S. Debelfry in the Throne of Star's Campaign
Currently Playing: Daniel S. Debelfry in the Throne of Star's Campaign