[Tekumel] Tekumel Foundation's plans for 2016

[Yaztromo]

Thank you, finarvyn, for clearly writing down some thoughts that for me were difficult to write down.

I couldn't find any Tekumel game nearby me, so I tried some play by post game as well, starting as a barbarian (as officially recommended for absolute Tekumel beginners) and... I'm not feel confident AT ALL at running a Tekumel game (as mentiooned by finarvyn) and, despite the few games, i don't feel my knowledge of Tekumel world really improved at all. I think that the game masters that run the games on line struggled a lot as well in conveying the marvel and the beauty (and the weirdness) of Tekumel world.
I think that it might help if really experienced (black belt) Tekumel game masters run introductory games (even for absolute beginners without any book) in popular role play on line websites (after all I encountered Monty Cook's Numenara this way and it was a good experience, that helped launching that ruleset nicely), but I don't know how many "black belt" Tekumel game masters are out there, available to do this kind of (boring?) work.

[finarvyn]

This is aimed at the DM and not the player, but I think it's the kind of "blackbelt Tekumel scholar giving out wisdom" information to help somewhat.

http://odd74.proboards.com/thread/6117/ ... tal-throne

There are several posters at OD&D Discussion (see my sig) who have run EPT and would be happy to answer questions if you don't find what you need here at The Comeback Inn. At least one active EPT play-by-post game as well.

I agree that more player "quickstart" style resources would be an excellent addition to the Tekumel setting.

[Havard]

As a side note, I find Blackmoor very intimidating, these days, and I would not even consider running any Blackmoor games for the very same reason that you mentioned. I played for a while with Dave, and the Blackmoor I played in was a very different place with a lot of details then the Blackmoor that you folks discuss here and on other fora. The Blackmoor I played in was closest to what was in FFC; the d20 book had, to my eye, so little 'Dave' and so much 'd20' that I simply put it back on the shelf; it's not the Blackmoor I knew and loved.

Unfortunately many Blackmoor fans feel a bit alienated by the d20 line of Blackmoor products. I think alot of that had to do with Zeitgeist Game designers trying to accomodate the world to the rules heavy needs of the d20 system. Alot of detail was also added to the setting in the 1980s with the DA Modules and although I believe that Dave Arneson had quite a bit of influence on those modules (at least the first 3), it did advance the timeline 30 years or so beyond the FFC. Personally I like revelling in tons of details and obscure sources and trying to make everything fit in with eachother, but I can understand that this can be intimidating. That is one of the reasons why we added the Original Campaign section to this forum to focus more on the Blackmoor that is described in the FFC, Supplement II and other stories from the early days of Dave's campaign.

I can understand that something similar is what is facing Tekumel. I like the idea of creating some sort of beginner's primer to the Petal Throne setting. I also like Dave Arneson's approach with the Captain Harchar. Playing a trope that is familiar, yet probably not uncommon in the setting.


-Havard

[chirine ba kal]

Thank you, everyone, for your replies! And a special thank you, Finarvyn, for reminding people about the series of posts that Dr. Raymond did; I think it's very good, actually, and I wished he'd finished it.

Phil was never interested in doing any sort of 'introductory' material, in all the time I worked for and with him. He felt that any reasonably educated person could run Tekumel, and do it well, and I had to keep pointing out that the educational system that he'd known was very different from the one that we'd been through. The issue just never 'showed up on his radar'.

Hmmm. Thinking...

[Rafael]

As a side note, I find Blackmoor very intimidating, these days, and I would not even consider running any Blackmoor games for the very same reason that you mentioned. I played for a while with Dave, and the Blackmoor I played in was a very different place with a lot of details then the Blackmoor that you folks discuss here and on other fora. The Blackmoor I played in was closest to what was in FFC; the d20 book had, to my eye, so little 'Dave' and so much 'd20' that I simply put it back on the shelf; it's not the Blackmoor I knew and loved.

Unfortunately many Blackmoor fans feel a bit alienated by the d20 line of Blackmoor products. I think alot of that had to do with Zeitgeist Game designers trying to accomodate the world to the rules heavy needs of the d20 system. Alot of detail was also added to the setting in the 1980s with the DA Modules and although I believe that Dave Arneson had quite a bit of influence on those modules (at least the first 3), it did advance the timeline 30 years or so beyond the FFC. Personally I like revelling in tons of details and obscure sources and trying to make everything fit in with eachother, but I can understand that this can be intimidating. That is one of the reasons why we added the Original Campaign section to this forum to focus more on the Blackmoor that is described in the FFC, Supplement II and other stories from the early days of Dave's campaign.

I can understand that something similar is what is facing Tekumel. I like the idea of creating some sort of beginner's primer to the Petal Throne setting. I also like Dave Arneson's approach with the Captain Harchar. Playing a trope that is familiar, yet probably not uncommon in the setting.


-Havard

FTR, this is one of the reasons why I recommended people to use Havard's "East March" Gaz in my, uhm, abdication speech. (*Drools, points to sig.*)

Blackmoor, most of the old settings, are simply not accessible to beginners - not, "beginners to the hobby", but "beginners to the setting". Even with settings that have gotten more love than BM or Tekumel in recent years, the amount of material that is considered basic is pretty impressive. RuneQuest had an encyclopedia released two years back that is about twice the size of the Norton Reader of English Literature.

Seriously, how is one supposed to get into stuff like that, on a casual base? - Like, I am really impressed by some of the more classic settings, but even as a teen, I wouldn't have wanted to spend that sort of time; as an adult, even less. And the problem is, you don't get to Blackmoor, Greyhawk, or Tekumel as a kid, at least not usually.

So, the big thing for the coming years will be to find a way to keep new people able to get into the game. And NO company in the business even remotely knows how to do that. Rulesets, yes, but to decomplicate complex settings - no gaming world that I know of has had that made for itself, ever since Dragonlance Saga (which was universally hated, back in the day, IIRC).

Havard's stuff for Blackmoor, perhaps paired with Rob Conley's Blackmarsh, would be my recommendation to any newbie, any day. ...And if they can handle THAT, then one can point them to more complex material.

[finarvyn]

As a side note, I find Blackmoor very intimidating, these days, and I would not even consider running any Blackmoor games for the very same reason that you mentioned. I played for a while with Dave, and the Blackmoor I played in was a very different place with a lot of details then the Blackmoor that you folks discuss here and on other fora. The Blackmoor I played in was closest to what was in FFC; the d20 book had, to my eye, so little 'Dave' and so much 'd20' that I simply put it back on the shelf; it's not the Blackmoor I knew and loved.

I missed this the first time around, but spotted it when Havard quoted you on this.

I feel much the same way about Blackmoor as you do. The FFC is one of my all-time favorite RPG resources and I have always felt that the FFC Blackmoor was the Blackmoor when I want to run the setting. The d20 product line sits on my shelf and they seem to be fine products, but they don't have the same "feel" for me as the FFC does. I'm glad to get your confirmation that the FFC Blackmoor matches what you experineced with Dave.

I understand that many folks here love the minutia and love the details of what makes Blackmoor tick. I'm a KISS guy, I guess, and just like to keep it simple. Blackmoor, to me, is a harkening back to my early days of D&D where the referee could improvise on demand, players couldn't "work" the rulebook, and we played for days just because it was fun. Reading the FFC gives me that same thrill that I just can't get out of a rules-heavy rulebook.

Just my two coppers.

[Havard]

I feel much the same way about Blackmoor as you do. The FFC is one of my all-time favorite RPG resources and I have always felt that the FFC Blackmoor was the Blackmoor when I want to run the setting. The d20 product line sits on my shelf and they seem to be fine products, but they don't have the same "feel" for me as the FFC does. I'm glad to get your confirmation that the FFC Blackmoor matches what you experineced with Dave.

I understand that many folks here love the minutia and love the details of what makes Blackmoor tick. I'm a KISS guy, I guess, and just like to keep it simple. Blackmoor, to me, is a harkening back to my early days of D&D where the referee could improvise on demand, players couldn't "work" the rulebook, and we played for days just because it was fun. Reading the FFC gives me that same thrill that I just can't get out of a rules-heavy rulebook.

To me there is a difference between rules heavy and setting heavy books. While I will agree with you about rules heavy sourcebooks, I can never get enough setting information. It is worth noting that the d20 Blackmoor line did not add that much to the setting. The biggest change between the FFC and the Blackmoor later presented actually happened in DA1 - Adventures in Blackmoor (for Classic D&D). Granted the d20 line added a pantheon of Gods, elaborated on elves, sorcerers, the wizards cabal and a few other things.

My dream for this place was actually to forge a community that had a shared interest in all things associated with the Blackmoor setting. Looking back, it seems that I completely failed at this. However, as Rob often reminds me, the fact that we have different ideas for Blackmoor is not a bad thing. At least there is probably some kind of common core that we all are fans of.


-Havard

[Rafael]

My dream for this place was actually to forge a community that had a shared interest in all things associated with the Blackmoor setting. Looking back, it seems that I completely failed at this. However, as Rob often reminds me, the fact that we have different ideas for Blackmoor is not a bad thing. At least there is probably some kind of common core that we all are fans of.

Nah, bro. Perhaps we didn't accomplish everything we could have, but in the end, come on. Don't be a Geroge Bailey. We did pretty damn good.


I see that you posted on another chapter in the Gygax/Arneson debate in the general section.

Well, here's something for you to have a good night's sleep over:

The big difference, for all I know, between Gygax' and Arneson's approach to gaming was that Gygax glorified the game itself. It was about playing, and about playing great games. He made that clear many times. - For Arneson, for all I know, it was never about the games themselves, at least not in the first place. It was about having a good time with his friends.


Now, look at us, ten years after we started posting at the same boards! We might not be the "best" Blackmoor community theoretically possible, but we share a bond of friendship that, from what I know, is pretty much unparalleled among other fan communities, except perhaps for our drunk redneck uncles over at K&K. For all I know about him, I think Mr Arneson probably would have been pretty proud of what we do here - because we've always put the people before the game.

[Havard]

You make several good points here, Rafe. I gotta give you that

-Havard

[Yaztromo]

Perhaps even this kind of things may help... https://www.choiceofgames.com/petal-thro...e=ourgames