Andre Norton's Quag Keep Lore and David Megarry's Maps

[Havard]

Revisiting various blog articles:

Zenopus:
https://zenopusarchives.blogspot.com/201...m-map.html

Timrod:
https://unfrozencavemandicechucker.blogs...gging.html

https://unfrozencavemandicechucker.blogs...-keep.html

https://unfrozencavemandicechucker.blogs...endum.html


I find a lot of these locations and groups mentioned by Andre Norton quite fascinating. I wonder how much if it could go back to Dave Arneson's campaign?

-Havard

[finarvyn]

I'm no expert, but my understanding is that the book Quag Keep was written after Norton experienced one of Gary Gygax's gaming sessions. I'm guessing that she didn't see the rules, but the "name dropping" seems like maybe she took some notes during play?

No direct connection to Dave Arneson that I've heard about.

[Havard]

I'm no expert, but my understanding is that the book Quag Keep was written after Norton experienced one of Gary Gygax's gaming sessions. I'm guessing that she didn't see the rules, but the "name dropping" seems like maybe she took some notes during play?

No direct connection to Dave Arneson that I've heard about.

I have also heard that she attended gaming sessions with Gary. For sure she must have taken notes since there is so much lore in the book that seems to match up with the early version of the Great Kingdom/Greyhawk/Blackmoor. She also seems to have misunderstood some things or she changed them on purpose. For instance, she refers to the Great Kingdom as the Great Kingdom of Blackmoor. 

Now, in addition to observing the game, I do wonder if she could have had notes from Gary or even things Dave might have given Gary or that Gary wrote down based on their conversations. 

We also know that Dave used material from Gary, especially for detailing things surrounding Blackmoor. The Peshwah, Afridhi and Skandaharians clearly had parallells in Gary's campaigns as ideas were shared back and forth and even though things were presented differently since it was always filtered through one of them.

-Havard

[aldarron]

Rob Kuntz talked briefly about Norton. He said Norton did not actually play the game with Gary to his knowledge. He said she talked with Gygax on the phone pretty extensively and Gygax sent her some stuff. Rob seemed to think he sent her a map (likely the Great Kingdom map) and that's about it.

[Havard]

Rob Kuntz talked briefly about Norton. He said Norton did not actually play the game with Gary to his knowledge. He said she talked with Gygax on the phone pretty extensively and Gygax sent her some stuff. Rob seemed to think he sent her a map (likely the Great Kingdom map) and that's about it.

Thanks for sharing this. 

It does sound like Norton might have had fairly extensive knowledge of how Gary's campaign worked back then. 

Now, another question is how much of this shared world that Gary created and where Dave inserted his Blackmoor into can we assume was applied to Arneson's world? Surely there were many of the ideas that Dave just didn't know about or changed/ignored in order to make things work best for his games, while the same can be said about Gary's understanding of Blackmoor, even though Gary also clearly referenced many specific elements from Dave's campaign. 

Norton is another step removed from Dave', but at least her book does clarify some things from Gary's campaign that are not always as easy to understand, including locations on Megarry's recovered map. 

-Havard