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The Lands of Erak
#1
Havard Wrote:I am not sure how old Bramwald is, but my impression is that both Bramwald and Erak predate the baronies of the "New Lands" (established by Uther's allies) and may have been part of the first era of Thonian Settlements in The North.

-Havard

Yeah, Arneson's original map from '71 is unlabeled but the town that gets called Bramwald on later maps is on it, and the letter to Kuntz that accompanied the map mentions (oddly) the "land of the Eraks" to the east.




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#2
Aldarron Wrote:Yeah, Arneson's original map from '71 is unlabeled but the town that gets called Bramwald on later maps is on it, and the letter to Kuntz that accompanied the map mentions (oddly) the "land of the Eraks" to the east.

I just wrote a bit on Bramwald here.

The term Land of the Eraks is very curious. I recall Greg (or Bob?) talking about how they used to launch raids into Erak in the original campaign. This would have been before Blackmoor breaks with the Empire. This always lead me to believe Erak to be a rogue state of bandits and raiders. Perhaps Erak claimed a larger part of that region in the past? It doesn't really make sense to have it have been too large though given its location.

-Havard
Currently Running: The Blackmoor Vales Saga
Currently Playing: Daniel S. Debelfry in the Throne of Star's Campaign
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#3
Havard Wrote:
Aldarron Wrote:Yeah, Arneson's original map from '71 is unlabeled but the town that gets called Bramwald on later maps is on it, and the letter to Kuntz that accompanied the map mentions (oddly) the "land of the Eraks" to the east.

I just wrote a bit on Bramwald here.

The term Land of the Eraks is very curious. I recall Greg (or Bob?) talking about how they used to launch raids into Erak in the original campaign. This would have been before Blackmoor breaks with the Empire. This always lead me to believe Erak to be a rogue state of bandits and raiders. Perhaps Erak claimed a larger part of that region in the past? It doesn't really make sense to have it have been too large though given its location.

-Havard

Yeah - prolly should be its own thread?

That's interesting if you've got some other references somewhere (can you find a quote maybe?)

My sense from the letter is that the original Blackmoor as Arneson invisioned it in the Kuntz letter of march '71, was very conan-esque. There's the "Red Wizards Coven", SkandaNarian "savage band of sea raiders" and Picts. We know that the Picts later morphed into orcs, with their palisaded villages and such. What you don't see is any reference to high fantasy races like elves and dwarves.

I think what happened with the Picts, is they got Tolkenized when Arneson got CHAINMAIL a few weeks after he wrote to Kuntz. In other words, when Arneson saw that Gygax "plan" for fantasy wargaming on his Great Kingdom map involved a lot of Tolkien monsters and not so much the Hyperboran mythos, his Picts became Orcs, more or less.

So what about the "Eraks"? All the letter says about them is this:
"To the south is our own great empire while to the East lay the forested domains of the ERAK'S, a breed noted for there cunning and banditry."

If Arneson meant the eastern edge of the map, which seems somewhat likely given that Erak was later applied to a town in the east of Blackmoor, then the land of the Eraks can be none other than the Redwood forest of the Elves. So the forest of the Eraks vanishes and the forest of the Elves appears and the Eraks go from being a savage people to a bunch of townies.

The other possibility is that the land of the Eraks was supposed to be somewhere off the map, and the territory lines might seem to support that because while there is a dashed line separating the territory around Blackmoor castle from the territory around Willaimsfort, there is no dashed line seprating Williamsfort from the Redwood Forest. So that's a question mark, except to say that the dashed lines that are on the map seem to kind of fade away and so aren't really complete. The other issue with this interpretation is that the eastern edge of the map is an ocean shoreline, so that makes a land to the east a bit hard to explain.
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#4
I don't have the map at hand, right now, but isn't "the land of Erak"/Bramwald environs supposed to be the implied setting of "Adventures in Fantasy"? Smile That's where Bleakwood would be located.
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#5
Rafael Wrote:I don't have the map at hand, right now, but isn't "the land of Erak"/Bramwald environs supposed to be the implied setting of "Adventures in Fantasy"? Smile That's where Bleakwood would be located.

Sort of? The FFC only says the pre AiF Bleakwood is a 44 x 34 hex area "next to Bramwald". The size of the hex isn't specified but seems to be meant to fit a single model house or bridge. The AiF map is given as 10 miles by 10 miles, and seems to be fairly similar in content to the FFC stuff.
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#6
Yeah, kind of always assumed this to be the case. - Like, for whom was Arneson writing Adventures in Fantasy, at that moment? Likely for his Blackmoor crew, or as a convention accessory. So, him using a "pocket setting" from a BM background makes sense.
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#7
Rafael Wrote:Yeah, kind of always assumed this to be the case. - Like, for whom was Arneson writing Adventures in Fantasy, at that moment? Likely for his Blackmoor crew, or as a convention accessory. So, him using a "pocket setting" from a BM background makes sense.

Adventures in Fantasy was originally published for Excalibre Games, but was quicky shifted over so it could be released by Dave Arneson's company Adventure Games.

Bleakwood obviously predates AiF as it was detailed briefly in the FFC. My own take on Bleakwood will be revealed in my next Thonia Sourcebook where I cover the region in depth. 8)

-Havard
Currently Running: The Blackmoor Vales Saga
Currently Playing: Daniel S. Debelfry in the Throne of Star's Campaign
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#8
Havard Wrote:My own take on Bleakwood will be revealed in my next Thonia Sourcebook where I cover the region in depth. 8)
:oops: I'll keep my fingers crossed, but I'm afraid that my take on the Bleakwood would be different... :roll:
He's a real Nowhere man, sitting in his Nowhere land,
making all his Nowhere plans for Nobody.
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#9
Well, for me, the question would be on which side of Bramwald to put the area. The only substantial clue in AiF (as far as I can tell) is that the AiF map shows a large winding river in the NE corner. I guess that kinda sorta fits either the Steelhead river or the Mogok river shown on the DA maps. Probably the Mogok works a little better since the Stealhead is more vertical.
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#10
Aldarron Wrote:
Havard Wrote:
Aldarron Wrote:My sense from the letter is that the original Blackmoor as Arneson invisioned it in the Kuntz letter of march '71, was very conan-esque. There's the "Red Wizards Coven", SkandaNarian "savage band of sea raiders" and Picts. We know that the Picts later morphed into orcs, with their palisaded villages and such. What you don't see is any reference to high fantasy races like elves and dwarves.

Wow. It would be fascinating to know how Blackmoor would have played out and evolved as more of a sword and sorcery setting, without the influence of Chainmail and high fantasy.
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