[MY] Ascention Dates of the Immortals

[Havard]

A side note: i have many appendixes to classify immortals for quicker reference, and one of these is particularly interesting and useful. It details immortals in order of ascension through the Mystaran timeline.

I can therefore state that during the period of Blackmoor (ca. 4500 BC) the following immortals were already active:

Beginning of Multiverse (before BC 100.000)
Hel, Ixion*, Korotiku, Odin, Ouranos*, Pax*, Protius, Skuld, the Four Elemasters, Thalia, Thanatos*, Tyche, Urd, Valerias, Verthandi*, Zugzul

* these were the High Hierarchs at the beginning of times

Prehistory (BC 100.000 - BC 30.000)
Arik, Terra, N’grath, Great One, Simurgh, Ordana, Ssu-Ma, Ka, Luca

Carnifex Tyranny (BC 30.000 - BC 19.000)
Demogorgon, Faunus, Fugit

Giants Era (BC 19.000 - BC 10.000)
Bastet, Ninfangle (BC 15000), Kagyar (BC 11000), Zalaj (BC 10200), Gorrziok (BC 10000)

Rise of Civilizations (BC 10.000 - BC 4.000)
Razud (BC 4400), Khoronus (BC 4050), Aracne Prime, Nyx, Stodos, Land

Blackmoor Era (BC 4.000 - BC 3.000)
Guidarezzo (BC 3930), Ninsun (BC 3400), Asterius (BC 3200), Garal Glitterlode (BC 3100), Sinbad

Era of Rebuilding (BC 3.000 – BC 2.000)
Rathanos (XXX century BC), Djaea (BC 2930), Cochere (BC 2920), Cretia (BC 2850), Utnapishtim (BC 2800), Slizzark (BC 2740), Saasskas (XXIV cent. BC), Tarastia (BC 2330)

XX century BC
Orcus

XIX century BC
Ilsundal (BC 1800), Kallala, Saturnius

XVIII century BC
Thor (BC 1750), Calitha (BC 1730), Diulanna, Loki

XVII century BC
Frey & Freyja (BC 1660), The Korrigans (BC 1640), Tahkati (BC 1620), Ilmarinen (BC 1610), Saimpt Loup, Wayland, Yagrai

XVI century BC
Pflarr (BC 1540), Maat (BC 1530), Atzanteotl (BC 1500)

XV century BC
Malafor (BC 1440), Hymir, Polunius

XIV century BC
Chardastes (BC 1360), Bachraeus (BC 1320), Talitha

XIII century BC
Wogar (BC 1263), Eiryndul (BC 1200), Forsetta

XII century BC
Bagni Gullymaw, Bartziluth, Iliric, Jammudaru, Rafiel

XI century BC
Chiron, Sharpcrest, Minroth, Raith, Urtson

X century BC
Koryis & Kersy (BC 990), Pharamond (BC 930), Halav, Ranivorus

IX century BC
Zirchev (BC 870), Palartarkan (BC 840), Saimpt Malinois (BC 830), Alphatia (BC 800)

VIII century BC
Atruaghin (BC 795), Tiresias (BC 780), Danel (BC 770), Hattani (BC 760), Petra

VII century BC
Brissard (BC 630), Ahmanni, Karaash, Masauwu, Taroyas

VI century BC
Brindorhin (BC 572), Coberham, Eternal General, Idris

V century BC
Kiranjo (BC 480), Noumena (BC 460), Arnelee (BC 456), Mahmatti (BC 452), Gorm (BC 444), Finidel (BC 410), Hircismus, Kurtulmak, Lornasen

IV century BC
Vanya (BC 380), Madarua (BC 345), Usamigaras (BC 333), Crakkak

III century BC
Mealiden (BC 250)

II century BC
Buglore, Marwdyn

I century BC
Mazikeen

I century AC
Oleyan (AC 60), Paarkum, Macroblan

II century AC
Idraote, Infaust, Twelve Watchers

III century AC
Shaper (AC 240)

IV century AC
Carnelian, Raven, Tourlain, Soubrette

V century AC
Mrikitat (AC 491), Bemarris, Harrow

VI century AC
Alphaks, Opal, Palson, Saimpt Mâtin

VII century AC
Nob Nar (AC 690), Saimpt Ralon

VIII century AC
Yav (AC 758), Patura, Ruaidhri Hawkbane

IX century AC
Diamond (AC 800), Rad (AC 855), Turmis (AC 880), Pearl

X century AC
Kythria (AC 910), Lokena (AC 920), Saimpt Clébard (AC 954), Liena (AC 996)

XI century AC
Al-Kalim (AC 1001), Benekander (AC 1002)

Source: http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/ ... _Immortals

For the Blackmoor Era, this gives us the following:

Beginning of Multiverse (before BC 100.000)
Hel, Ixion*, Korotiku, Odin, Ouranos*, Pax*, Protius, Skuld, the Four Elemasters, Thalia, Thanatos*, Tyche, Urd, Valerias, Verthandi*, Zugzul

* these were the High Hierarchs at the beginning of times. Ouranos would already have disappeared by the time of Blackmoor.

Prehistory (BC 100.000 - BC 30.000)
Arik, Terra, N’grath, Great One, Simurgh, Ordana, Ssu-Ma, Ka, Luca

Carnifex Tyranny (BC 30.000 - BC 19.000)
Demogorgon, Faunus, Fugit

Giants Era (BC 19.000 - BC 10.000)
Bastet, Ninfangle (BC 15000), Kagyar (BC 11000), Zalaj (BC 10200), Gorrziok (BC 10000)

Rise of Civilizations (BC 10.000 - BC 4.000)
Razud (BC 4400), Khoronus (BC 4050), Aracne Prime, Nyx, Stodos, Land

Blackmoor Era (BC 4.000 - BC 3.000)
Guidarezzo (BC 3930), Ninsun (BC 3400), Asterius (BC 3200), Garal Glitterlode (BC 3100), Sinbad



-Havard

[Yaztromo]

This would put Khoronus before Blackmoor era. I though he was an early Blackmoorian...

EDIT: I double checked what I remembered and in Dave Arneson's Blackmoor Campaign Setting book (page 159) I found out that Khoronus was a mortal man "just" two hundred years before the start of the campaign, that is 1030 (after the foundation of Thonia), so Khoronus lived around 830 (approximately the time of the Mage Wars). Is it approx 3170 BC, according to the Thiatian Calendar?

[Havard]

This would put Khoronus before Blackmoor era. I though he was an early Blackmoorian...

EDIT: I double checked what I remembered and in Dave Arneson's Blackmoor Campaign Setting book (page 159) I found out that Khoronus was a mortal man "just" two hundred years before the start of the campaign, that is 1030 (after the foundation of Thonia), so Khoronus lived around 830 (approximately the time of the Mage Wars). Is it approx 3170 BC, according to the Thiatian Calendar?

I was thinking about adressing this, but didn't so I am glad you asked!

The Dave Arneson's Blackmoor Campaign Setting book isn't fully compatible with WotI, but they can work well enough together.

The good thing is that because Khoronus is a Time Traveller, it doesn't really matter when he lived because he can show up whenever we want. I think I would stick with him being mortal 200 years ago, but when he discovered the time travelling device he went back in time and constructed the very device that he set out on his first journey with! This is some real Marty McFly stuff! hock:

-Havard

[Yaztromo]

When would you place Temrin?
http://blackmoormystara.blogspot.com/20 ... -part.html

[Havard]

When would you place Temrin?
http://blackmoormystara.blogspot.com/20 ... -part.html

This was placed during the late Cthonic Age, before the Age of Dragons.

[Yaztromo]

Where would this fit in the proposed chronology? And then when would you put his death? at the rise of the civilisation times?

[Havard]

Where would this fit in the proposed chronology? And then when would you put his death? at the rise of the civilisation times?

I placed the Cthonic Age to around BC10.000 or 3000 years before the founding of Thonia.

Here are how I have organized the Ages of Blackmoor's prehistory:
• Thonian Year -3000 Cthonic Age (Sar Aigu)
• Thonian Year -1000 Age of Dragons
• Thonian Year -500 Age of Giants
• Thonian Year 1 Bronze Age: Robert of Geneva conquers the Land. Age of Man
• Thonian Year 500: "Iron Age" and the Decline of Elves. Thonian Age. (Blackmoor becomes a Thonian Province)
• Thonian Year 800: "Modern Age". Age of Blackmoor. (Mage Wars begin)

I could see the death of Temrin maybe at -2000 on the Thonian Calendar?

What do you think?

It is interesting that we have Kagyar become Immortal (Marco Dalmonte' theory) at BC11.000. Although he likely lived on another continent, he would have been part of the Brute Man Civilization that Temrin was also part of.

-Havard

[Yaztromo]

I have no hard facts to judge either Marco's nor your chronology. It just feels that Marco's is too grand and extended, wile yours is too compressed: the whole history since the time of Ser Aigu would be just a few thousand years and longer living sentient beings like Elves would have seen dramatic changes in just a few generations.
Maybe something in the middle?

[Havard]

I have no hard facts to judge either Marco's nor your chronology. It just feels that Marco's is too grand and extended, wile yours is too compressed: the whole history since the time of Ser Aigu would be just a few thousand years and longer living sentient beings like Elves would have seen dramatic changes in just a few generations.
Maybe something in the middle?

That is worth discussing.
My starting point was always Mystaros Blackmoor Epic. While James Mishler had a milennia long backstory, the main focus in this work starts in BC 10.000 which marks the end of, in James' take, a Glacial Period.

Having long lived races like elves tend to mess things up since as you say, this means that these races can remember things that happened in ancient history. Then again, I also think that is one of the cool things about elves. Stretching out the timeline risks taking some things away from the elves.

That said, I do think we could move some of the pre-Blackmoor periods back to have taken place before the Glacial Period.

Mystaros has the Carnifex Tyranny (originating in the storyline from M3 Twilight Calling) back at 10.000.000 BC. Marco moved thins forward into BC30.000-19.000).

Geoff Gander also has the Carnifex be more active in a much more recent period.

I guess we could move the Cthonic Age and the Sar-Aigu back to the Carnifex Era and then have Blackmoor's Age of Dragons and Age of Giants correspond to the Age of Giants period described by Marco as ending in BC 10.000.

My idea for the era described in the story about Temrin and Thanatos though was that it was to take place in the New Stone Age which followed the Glacial Period. At this time I envisioned a period where sleeping Cthonic Age creautres (Burrowers etc) were corrupting the minds of some stone age men and surviving Neanderthal-like Brute Men, turning them against one another. OldDawg introduced some story seeds to this which was part of my inspiration for this time period.

I guess I have the Age of Giants extend through this period at least in the Blackmoor region, since I wanted the reign of Giants to end with the fall of Castle Hammerfire storyline which marked Robert of Geneva defeating the last Fire Giant King of the North.

Now, if we look at our own real world history, much of what we know of recorded history takes place over 5000 years and that is including the centuries following the medieval period which is closer to where Blackmoor is now. Humans have of course existed much longer and the same can be true about the races of Mystara prior to the Blackmoor period, but I think much of what those early races did would have been forgotten or to be unknown by most humans.

The elves may have been around longer than BC6000 (2000 years before King Uther's time) which is when the Hollow World boxed set says they emerge from the protection of the Fey, but even the elves might be confused about this early period of their history when they did not yet have kingdoms of their own.

Sorry for this disorganized post, but I just wanted to get my thoughts out there

-Havard

[Yaztromo]

My idea for the era described in the story about Temrin and Thanatos though was that it was to take place in the New Stone Age which followed the Glacial Period. At this time I envisioned a period where sleeping Cthonic Age creautres (Burrowers etc) were corrupting the minds of some stone age men and surviving Neanderthal-like Brute Men, turning them against one another. OldDawg introduced some story seeds to this which was part of my inspiration for this time period.

I'm very aligned with this, and, as you propose, I'd move Carnifex, Dragons and probably even Giants to before the Ice Age, or maybe Giants can be across it: right before and, in smaller numbers, also right after the glacial period.

However, as I mentioned, this is more a gut feeling than applied fantasy scholarship.