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The Wayfarer's Inn • View topic - Should Alphatia be brought back to the surface?

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2007 8:59 pm 
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2007 4:35 am 
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Important note: Undisputable world power doesn't mean as strong as before, Havard! It just means Thyatis doesn't have an opponent.

It is mentioned that Thyatis is weaker than before the war, however it is the most powerful nation left... and there are mentions that Thyatis will probably be it's own most important and dangerous enemy.
They have:
1. Vast territories they either just recovered or just conquered.
2. Alphatian regiments in their own army. :q23: I.e people that were their enemies a year ago and that they have been proven to be not loyal (or they would remain Alphatian)
3. No powerful enemy to their way of thinking to keep them on focus. I.e they underestimate everyone and think that they can now do whatever they want. While they are the most powerful nation left, they are weakened, tired and they certainly cannot take on the whole world.
4. Their own way of thinking: I.e fight, fight and then fight some more. With no clear enemy, they will start turning on each other. Baron fighting count, and Count fighting Duke.
5. They have intrigue in their blood. That means that without any clear threat (and along with 4) those that chose to not fight, will sit on their thrones starting to fend off assassination after assassination attempt, plot, maneuver and ignore threats.

On the good side: Thyatis holds a vast area... The "unstable" areas don't have any clear/powerful enemies nearby and the main Thyatian land is very well defended and prepared for war.

Still a crisis is looming. Thyatis seems to be failing to see that. There are other powers rising to fill the void left by Alphatia along with Thyatis.

Example: Thyatis holds the whole Isle of Dawn, and there are not enough Alphatians left to take it back...

But what if the local Lords decide to side with what is left from Alphatian armies (in both empires) and with the Locals in the Isle of dawn and renounce their allegiance to Thyatis, creating their own empire? Can Thyatis fight their former troops as they did with the protectorates they lost in the war last year?

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 10:06 am 


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2007 1:27 am 
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I'm afraid you're mistaken Cab. Almanac says that Thyatis has already reclaimed all land lost in the war, conquered all of Isle of Dawn and the Alatian isles. I think I remember that Thyatis has already recovered, although I'm not sure.

Does anyone know the following?
From DrivethruRPG I'm entitled to download the PDF 5 times. Can I gift one copy to someone, or the PDFs are for personal use only and I have 5 copies just in case I lost the PDFs?
If the first is the case, I would glady send Havard a copy of poor Wizard's Almanac for 1011 AC.
It has news on Alphatia too, and how the Empress son fares in Norwold. (And he fares badly. :) )

EDIT: Thyatis doesn't rule The Alatian isle of Never-do-wells but they accept the Imperial navy to their ports. They informed the Emperor they are independant though and Thyatis hasn't moved against them.

Also the Kingdom in Isle of Dawn that is not under Thyatian rule is Thothia since their mummies beat the hell out of Thyatian armies in 1010 AC. Thyatis rules all the rest of Isle of Dawn.

About the Heldanics, in the Almanac they don't seem powerful at all. They seem... aggresive but they didn't manage to do much in the war against Alphatia.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2007 7:49 am 


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2007 2:27 pm 
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According to the Almanac, the Thyatian army was just losing, and not very badly at that. I cannot find that Wrath of the Immortals you're all talking about, so I can read it and give you my opinion. :(

Also Iriendian pirates raided a bit the Navy of Thyatis but nothing too serious. Minrothad guilds and the other Neighbors of Thyatis didn't got involved or tried to capitalized the situation.
Thyatis in fact didn't had any use for some of its mainland army and disbanded two regiments!

As for the Alatian isles, they seem to just be happy to be part of an empire now that Alphatia sank. They even share the flying ship techniques with Thyatis and the empire is now building air navy. :mymy:

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2007 8:40 am 


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2007 12:18 pm 
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Aha! Now I can see the differences of our opinions.

- IMO... Thyatis would win the war with Alphatia in the long run. They were fighting over their territory, while Alphatia was a looooong way from the front line. Yes, they managed to put a couple of regiments in Thyatis mainland but they didn't bombard the cities from the air. While Alphatia had many more wizards, Thyatis had its own battle mages on hand when they needed them.
The infrastucture of Thyatis was mostly intact after the war as far as I understand from the Almanac (since I haven't WotI) since Alphatians didn't try to destroy cities or highways. Also Thyatis didn't lose many colonies in the Isle of dawn as far as I have read in the Almanac. Some of them rebelled I think, but they also rebelled against Alphatians too. It was a kind of stalemate in isle of dawn that forced Alphatia to a rash move (i.e To try attacking the mainland).
Another proof that Thyatis wasn't terribly scarred is that while Iriendy tried some minor raids, the neighbors of Thyatis are so concerned about the threat the "unopposed superpower" constitutes that they put aside their differences and form an alliance both against the hordes of the Master and to protect themselves from Thyatis. Even Karameikos is afraid of his homeland since he didn't helped them in the war against Alphatia.
BTW: Did the Alphatians really bombed Thyatis with delayed blast fireballs? That would take a horde of very powerful wizards, risking their lives. Or did you just did it in your campaign?

- I agree that Alphatian isles joining over the "other big guy just to be in an empire" seems quite lame. Thyatis wouldn't have bothered them for a long time.

- Also some of the colonies of Isle of Dawn fell too easily in the Empire's grasp IMO. The Thyatians will need time to bring these lands to meet the standards of their empire. Thyatis is not Alphatia. They don't depend on loosely organized colonies that somewhere along the line swear an oath to some Emperor or Emperess and go back to their business.
Thyatian dominions, dukes, kings etc are really part of a whole, not a loose empire. I.e. They probably have much more land in their hands than they can control at the time.

- Thyatis from what I have gathered in the Almanac wasn't terribly wounded in the war, but I agree that they would need more than a year to 1. Take over rebellious colonies 2. Convince independants to join them without war 3. conquer independants that didn't join them.

- Let's face it: Alphatia and Thyatis were about equal in power. Yes Thyatis managed to throw off Alphatia in the past, yes Alphatia managed to attacked the mainland of Thyatis. But none was more powerful than the other.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2007 1:15 pm 


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 2:40 am 
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The Pacifist mentallity doesn't break out so quickly :) A pacifistic nation doesn't go all out war for an atrocity, commiting dozens of atrocities in the way. Pacifists don't throw delayed blast fireballs over a capital after all. Not to mention that there was a risk of Thyatis using pegasi, flying fighters and mages and capturing a few such ships. Also those wands you mention... they're not easy to make even for a mage continent like Alphatia. While they may had 20 such ships, they wouldn't risk them all IMO.
Most of the mages that constitute the Alphatian army are 1-3rd level BTW. And Alphatia is vast, it can't have sent all its mages to Thyatis.

Also Alphatia wasn't that pacifistic. After all they had war after war with Thyatis.
IMO the Emperess didn't want war in order for her people to prosper. The previous generations of Alphatia weren't that nice.
BTW The "New Aphatia"'s emperor, Zandor seems a complete fool to me. He alienates everyone, even his own sister and his Empire is more a joke than reality.

Also while I don't agree on the "Woops, Alphatia's down, let's join Thyatis" mentality, many people would rush to the Thyatian Empire and many fiefs would claim allegiance. After all, Thyatis is the surviving superpower. I don't think it would take a generation for Thyatis to reclaim the lost territories. Perhaps a year or so.
Then it would proceed to take over the Isle of Dawn which would take more than 5 years since,let's face it, the place is big and Thyatis has many other problems to solve.
(Campaign wise, what's the fun to have Thyatis march through the Isle of Dawn like a hysteric lion in steroids?)

So IMO Thyatis would be like what it seems to be in the Almanac eventually, but it would take 6-7 years, not a single year, not 20 years.

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