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+--- Thread: [MetaOrg] The Blackmoor Military (/showthread.php?tid=841)
[MetaOrg] The Blackmoor Military - Havard - 07-16-2011
Just looking through Scott Moore's writeup of the Blackmoor Military Metaorg. Has anyone else taken a look at this file yet?
I like how the ranks are divided into the following:
Private
Corporal
Sergeant
Lieutenant
Captain
Major (Commander)
I am not sure how this compares to historical medieval ranks. I have a feeling they were less granular, but it is nice to have this many levels. Personally I would consider requiring nobility points for any rank above sergeant. Werent officer ranks usually reserved for the nobility? I do like that the cavalry units do have this requirement.
Any thoughts?
-Havard
Re: The Blackmoor Military - Big Mac - 12-08-2011
Havard Wrote:I am not sure how this compares to historical medieval ranks. I have a feeling they were less granular, but it is nice to have this many levels. Personally I would consider requiring nobility points for any rank above sergeant. Werent officer ranks usually reserved for the nobility? I do like that the cavalry units do have this requirement.
Even the Romans had a number of military ranks:
http://getasword.com/blog/378-roman-military-ranks/
I think that, from a logistical point of view, you need to have a number of ranks in a larger military organisation. One person can only concentrate on organising a certain number of people and the rank system creates a "pyramid of power" that makes it possible for higher commanders to only deal with a small number of officers (or NCOs) below them. Once you have that structure in place, a high-up officer can decide what size unit needs to be employed to deal with a task and the officer below him can punt the orders downwards until the right size unit is given the task.
I'm not sure how things changed in medieval times, as certain things seemed to decline after the Roman Empire collapsed just as other things advanced. But you could have local varieties in how well the military is organised and some Blackmoorian cultures might be better than others, in this respect.
Perhaps this sort of thing could explain why civilisations were able to gain control of areas around cities, and critters like orcs were able to hold onto other areas. The military structure and the logistics of moving things about would give a military organisation the ability to move troops to deal with threats in certain areas. But hard to reach areas (like caves) might defeat the normal military tactics and force soldiers back into hand-to-hand fighting, where independently minded warriors could then have the advantage.
As for nobility being officers, that was something done in the UK. We also had something similar during the time of knights. But are all the societies in Blackmoor ones that have a king and nobility? IIRC, rich people could buy a commission in the army at one point. But I'm not totally sure on that.
If you had other forms of government, you might have other "political forces" that change who gets into the "officer class". Perhaps a nation ruled on religious grounds would have an "upper class" that had heavy ties to the church and a military structure that put priests and lay-priests into the positions of officers.
Perhaps a nation that is based on the principle of merit and communal living would have everyone start as a private, but also have the option to show their skill and advance to the position of commanding the entire army.
I think this is something you could vary to fit in with the type of culture you are trying to design.
One thing that fantasy armies might have, that real armies don't, is spellcasters. Wizards and clerics have spells, and that gives them the ability to do as much damage as a number of soldiers. This might mean that they are considered to be a larger "unit" in an army (based on their ability) and they may well be put into the pyramid of power at a higher level and given pay and rank at that level. (I know that WWII pilots in the UK's Royal Air Force were mostly - but not totally - officers, despite not commanding privates when they fought. A WWII pilot had a "ground crew" that helped them get their plane ready. Perhaps a wizard might have a small "crew" to look after his needs and watch his back, but be the primary fighter within his own unit.)
Re: The Blackmoor Military - Havard - 12-11-2011
Big Mac Wrote:Havard Wrote:I am not sure how this compares to historical medieval ranks. I have a feeling they were less granular, but it is nice to have this many levels. Personally I would consider requiring nobility points for any rank above sergeant. Werent officer ranks usually reserved for the nobility? I do like that the cavalry units do have this requirement.
Even the Romans had a number of military ranks:
http://getasword.com/blog/378-roman-military-ranks/
I'm not sure how things changed in medieval times, as certain things seemed to decline after the Roman Empire collapsed just as other things advanced. But you could have local varieties in how well the military is organised and some Blackmoorian cultures might be better than others, in this respect.
The transition from the Roman Empire to the Middle Ages is dramatic when it comes to military structure. There is no longer a society able to support the vast legions, and they are quickly replaced by the fast moving cavary unit, the Knight. In the World of Blackmoor, King Uther's Military would certainly follow the feudal medieval structure with knights being the most important unit.
Quote:As for nobility being officers, that was something done in the UK. We also had something similar during the time of knights. But are all the societies in Blackmoor ones that have a king and nobility? IIRC, rich people could buy a commission in the army at one point. But I'm not totally sure on that.
Medieval England is probably not a bad comparison for how Blackmoor's society would work. And although most would deny it, it might be possible to buy a title of nobility. Perhaps not from Uther, but certainly from his neighbours in Ten or the Duchy of the Peaks.
The Wikipedia has some interesthing facts:
Wikipedia Wrote:Medieval ranks
There were not any real ranks in the Medieval or Dark age armies of Europe. Authority was based on position in the feudal hierarchy. Vassals would often be given some measure of command over the knights and men-at-arms they supplied the king during wartime, but there was no defined chain of command, and all major decisions rested with the king (or appointed field marshal) and his advisers.
High command in medieval armies
The king’s army was placed under the command of the High Constable as commander-in-chief. The High Constable had authority over the local constables, commanders of the garrisons of major castles. The High Constable had the help of the Field Marshal, an officer that set up the army’s camp. (Marshals acted as chiefs of logistics and were also employed by royal and noble courts.) The High Constable derived his authority over the army from his role of head of the Cavalry.
However, the same page also goes on to say that the following ranks appeared in the late medieval period:
Captain (Filled by a Vassal Lord, ie Knight)- Commanded a Company
Lieutenant (Assistant to the Captain) - Commanded a Platoon
Sergeant (NCO)
Corporal (NCO) -Commanded a Squad
Private
Actually that fits very well with the setup in the Blackmoor Military Document (See first post).
Quote:One thing that fantasy armies might have, that real armies don't, is spellcasters. Wizards and clerics have spells, and that gives them the ability to do as much damage as a number of soldiers. This might mean that they are considered to be a larger "unit" in an army (based on their ability) and they may well be put into the pyramid of power at a higher level and given pay and rank at that level. (I know that WWII pilots in the UK's Royal Air Force were mostly - but not totally - officers, despite not commanding privates when they fought. A WWII pilot had a "ground crew" that helped them get their plane ready. Perhaps a wizard might have a small "crew" to look after his needs and watch his back, but be the primary fighter within his own unit.)
Spellcasters have definately played a role in Blackmoorian warfare. The best known example might be the Mage Wars. Also, there is the Scroll & Blade Mercenary Company which consists to a large extent of Wizards.
In general, I see Wizards as having their own agendas outside the mundane needs of kings and princes though. If they do intervene in war, they are terrible and destructive, but most parties prefer them to stay out of it and let the mundanes fight it out alone. The comparison to Air Forces etc is interesting though
-Havard
Re: The Blackmoor Military - RobJN - 12-12-2011
Havard Wrote:In hammering out some notes for the various structures within the Grand Army of Blackmoor, I'd decided that shrikes were treated largely as infantry, grouped by platoon, whereas sirens were organized into flights, as is common in today's air forces. Whether or not either of the units ever truly flew or the designation merely served to differentiate the Gold from Silver is a matter of some heated debate among scholars of ancient societies. Certainly no known sirens or shrikes, neither modern nor classical, boast wings of any sort....Big Mac Wrote:One thing that fantasy armies might have, that real armies don't, is spellcasters. Wizards and clerics have spells, and that gives them the ability to do as much damage as a number of soldiers. This might mean that they are considered to be a larger "unit" in an army (based on their ability) and they may well be put into the pyramid of power at a higher level and given pay and rank at that level. (I know that WWII pilots in the UK's Royal Air Force were mostly - but not totally - officers, despite not commanding privates when they fought. A WWII pilot had a "ground crew" that helped them get their plane ready. Perhaps a wizard might have a small "crew" to look after his needs and watch his back, but be the primary fighter within his own unit.)
Spellcasters have definately played a role in Blackmoorian warfare. The best known example might be the Mage Wars. Also, there is the Scroll & Blade Mercenary Company which consists to a large extent of Wizards.
In general, I see Wizards as having their own agendas outside the mundane needs of kings and princes though. If they do intervene in war, they are terrible and destructive, but most parties prefer them to stay out of it and let the mundanes fight it out alone. The comparison to Air Forces etc is interesting though
-Havard
Re: The Blackmoor Military - Havard - 12-16-2011
Pretty cool Rob!
BTW, my own character General Harwan is closely linked to the Blackmoor Military, ultimately reaching the rank of General.
-Havard
Re: The Blackmoor Military - RobJN - 12-17-2011
Have a gander at my reply to the "Dragonlord" post further along, Havard.
