northrundicandus Wrote:And join the piles of other d20 crap accumulating dust in the gaming shops? I think even the d20 players are wising up to the immense amounts of dung being shoveled at them with that blasted logo. All the garbarge makes it hard to find the gems. I wish you guys the best - but catering to that market typically makes the book useless to me.
As I mentioned in my earlier post, we had no choice but to make the book for the current edition of D&D. Would we have wanted to try to cater to a larger market? Yes. Are we able to write Blackmoor supplements for ODD or AD&D? No.

JF Wrote:

DClingman Wrote:My research shows that many players are eager to dump Greyhawk and get into another campaign. Will all of them? Of course not. Dustin

I'd be careful some people here are eager to dump any other setting.

JF Wrote:Fanatic and fan share the common word origins.
No setting is best or better, just the one I enjoy and the ones I don't.

JF Wrote:You mean the settings that turn you a profit so you can keep your car and house? :lol:

Solomoriah Wrote:Regarding the new version, my jury is out until I read it. I know it's heresy to say this, but if you write a OD&D, BED&D, 1E or 2E module or supplement and then "port" it to 3E, changing only the stats, you should still have the old-school "flavor" (perhaps somewhat diluted).

The question is, did they do that, or did they do something else?

Thoth Amon Wrote:

Quote:The truth of the matter is that much of the latter modules in the DA series were not approved by Dave and are not considered to be completely legit

There were four. Which ones "of the latter modules" does this include?

rogueattorney Wrote:I'm sure you've probably agonized over the desire to appeal to old-school fans of BM balancing with the need to sell to d20-ers more than I'll ever know.

rogueattorney Wrote:I'm personally quite curious about this, myself. The "ray guns and frogmen" aspect of the campaign, along with the (let's be honest) goofy sense of humor, to me, have always been the most appealing aspects of the campaign, and are what set BM apart from other campaign worlds. I'm curious to see how you prevent Blackmoor from being "just another" fantasy world.

rogueattorney Wrote:Any more info. on the gazetter? Contents? Tenative release date? Etc.

Melan Wrote:Too bad, because I always liked that element in the setting - or that really insane explanation about BM's climate - that the heat and humidity can be attributed to the submerged atomic reactor of a huge starship... :lol:

How much of the book is edition neutral material? Truth be told, I am not that keen on new prestige classes, feats and whatnot.

Geoffrey Wrote:Dustin, thanks for taking the time to answer our questions.

The old First Fantasy Campaign setting was situated at the top of the old Judges' Guild's Wilderlands setting (directly north of the Valley of the Ancients). As you know, the Wilderlands is being republished by Necromancer Games. Are there any plans to keep this old "Blackmoor-Wilderlands" relationship intact? Any thoughts about working with the guys at Necromancer in any way in regards to the old Blackmoor-Wilderlands connection?

Geoffrey Wrote:In September I plan on buying:

1. the Castles & Crusades game
2. the World's Largest Dungeon
3. Blackmoor

Then I'll run a C&C campaign in the World's Largest Dungeon and set it in Blackmoor.

I must be thinking along the right lines. Dave Arneson bought a copy of the World's Largest Dungeon at Gen Con.

Finarvyn Wrote:

Cthulhu Wrote:Ok...what in the blazes is Blackmoor? I've heard it mentioned numerous times but it never seems to match up with what I know to be Blackmoor!
1) Is it a Greyhawk reference? I know GH has a Blackmoor and a Duchy of Tenh...but somehow it doesn't feel right.
2) Is it a Mystara reference? Mystara has a lost civilization called Blackmoor with funky tech like reactors.
Or...
3) Is it something else entirely?
Thanks for anybody who can clear this up!

Stupid answer time: it's all of them!

Blackmoor does appear on the Greyhawk map, can be found in Mystera, was located atop the Wilderlands map by Judges' Guild, is the name of a supplement for brown book OD&D, and was a campaign by Dave Arneson (listed as a co-creator of D&D). Blackmoor is or can be some or all of these things.

d20 Blackmoor is a new hardback game book released at GenCon Indy. It is a revision of the original campaign setting by Dave Arneson. Back in the early days of D&D (late 1960's early 1070's) there were a couple of "original" settings that existed -- Gygax's Greyhawk, Arneson's Blackmoor, and Kuntz's campaign of a name I can't recall.

Greyhawk was published first in the 1970's in a form not quite the same as Gary's actual campaign so that his players couldn't buy it and read it. Some of the "original Greyhawk" apparently came out in the Gord the Rogue books.

Dave's Blackmoor was published first in the 1970's as "First Fantasy Campaign" by Judges' Guild; it was more like a set of typed notes on the game than a campaign book as we know them today. Parts of Dave's Blackmoor emerged in the Blackmoor supplement to OD&D (Temple of the Frog, for example) and other parts of Dave's Blackmoor came out as the DA series of D&D modules. I understand that the first couple DA modules were more authentic Blackmoor and the later ones less so.

Now, Dave's Blackmoor has been revised and updated into the d20 game system. That's exciting to me, but even more exciting is Dustin's talk of taking that game book and converting things into OD&D or AD&D.

Anyway, that's my version of the story.

Geoffrey Wrote:This 240-page hardback is a d20 campaign world published by Goodman Games. This is the real thing. It is Dave Arneson's Blackmoor in its own context (not merely a watered-down Blackmoor artificially stuck on to Greyhawk or the Wilderlands or Mystara). A chapter-by-chapter review follows.

Chapter 1: Characters (pp. 10-44)
Probably about half of these pages are wasted space. There is good information on the particulars of Blackmoor's races (pretty much the D&D standard, with tweaks). Information is given on the races' personality, physical description, alignment, relations with others, religion, languages, and typical names. Space is wasted on three 3.5 edition-style new characters classes, and new skills and feats.

Chapter 2: Prestige Classes (pp. 45-68 )
A complete loss. After all, it's prestige classes.

Chapter 3: Magic (pp. 69-95)
The first six-pages of this chapter give indispensible information on the background, history, and nature of magic in Blackmoor. The rest, unfortunately, is a bunch of 3.5 edition-style spells.

Chapter 4: The Kingdom of Blackmoor (pp. 96-130)
Here is where the book really shines. A 1030-year timeline is given, plus the Blackmoorian calendar, holidays, and the like. The lands of Blackmoor plus all its villages and towns are described. The world of Blackmoor is sparsely-populated, even less so than the Wilderlands. The largest city is Maus, with a population of a mere 18,800! The "city" of Blackmoor itself has a mere 5,400 inhabitants. Existence is precarious in this frontier land, with rumors of invasion and realities of magic and monsters threatening to overwhelm human civilization. A glance at the map (printed twice inside both the front and back covers) will reveal that Blackmoor is a very wet, marshy land crisscrossed by many rivers and channels. D&D doesn't get any better than this. The descriptions of the geography and villages positively ooze with old-school feel and mood. This is pure Arneson. Plus, as in Gary's old Greyhawk folios, every paragraph has a number of adventure hooks. One can tell that Blackmoor is a real, living campaign. It wasn't designed and slapped together in a few months. This world has been chugging along for over 30 years.

Chapter 5: The Lands Beyond (pp. 131-153)
This chapter is also pure gold. It gives the same sort of treatment to the Duchy of Ten, the Elven lands, the Hak (horsemen), the Lands of the Regent of the Mines (dwarves), the weird realm of the Egg of Coot, and the enigmatic Valley of the Ancients. Of note is that the Duchy of Ten has been recently invaded and conquered by bands of cruel humans known as the Afridhi. They believe that their high priestess, Toska Rusa, is wed to their vile god, Zugzul. They intend to conquer all the lands of Ten and of Blackmoor as a wedding gift to Toska Rusa.

Chapter 6: Religions of the North (pp. 154-170)
Virtually no 3.5 edition stuff is in this chapter. Instead, we are given short descriptions of the deities of the humans, dwarves, gnomes, and elves in "the North" (i. e., Blackmoor, the Duchy of Ten, and the surrounding wilderness).

Chapter 7: Regents and Rascals (pp. 171-186)
These pages give descriptions and 3.5 edition statistics for several major figures in Blackmoor. Included are Brother Richard (the Flying Monk), the Egg of Coot (no statistics), the Great Svenny, and many others. It's of course too bad that the statistics are for 3.5 edition, but they can be easily ignored.

Chapter 8: Monsters of Blackmoor (pp. 187-209)
In this chapter are 18 monsters, including froglins and thralls of Coot. Of course, the statistics are all 3.5 edition.

Chapter 9: Ties that Bind (pp. 210-227)
This is a beginning adventure for 1st or 2nd-level characters, set of course in Blackmoor. I have only skimmed this adventure, so I can't say much about it.

Appendix, Index, and Character Records (pp. 228-237)
Here we have encounter tables in addition to the index and character record sheet.

The art in the book is a mixed bag. I really like the art by Allan Alegado, as it best captures the unique mood of Blackmoor (particularly his drawing of the dwarf on p. 129 and the froglins with their damsel captive on p. 133). Some of the art is rather cartoonish, and all of it is black-and-white. (The cover has a color painting by Elmore, which I feel is out of place).

So what about crashed starships, and laser rifles, and armies of mutant frogs? Absent, for the most part. Such Blackmoorian themes will be covered in future products. They are not covered in this book because they do not play a large part in the day-to-day existence of Blackmoor. Because Dave's published adventures emphasized these themes, many people got the mistaken impression that every third person in Blackmoor has a laser rifle (found in the crashed spaceship in his backyard) that he uses to shoot mutant frogs. This book is the foundational product in putting Blackmoor in the proper--Arnesonian--context. Note that there are a few pages describing Dwarven steam technology and Gnomish clockwork.

My verdict? For me, it is a must-buy. After reading about the lands of Blackmoor, I've come to the opinion that this is the best D&D world that's ever been published. I love the fact that mankind is huddled in scattered villages, on the brink of disaster. The very land is dark and eerie. There are no mighty kingdoms or vast city-states. Its small habitations are hewn out of the ever-encroaching wilderness. It is a wonderful setting for OD&D or AD&D games.

That said, there is a lot of space wasted on 3.5 edition stuff, plus the rather hefty price-tag of $34.99. If someone doesn't love Blackmoor as I do, the book isn't worth the cost. But if you want something that has an old-school feel (as do the Wilderlands, Gygaxian Greyhawk, and Arduin), then this book is for you.

Blucher Wrote:Thanks a bunch Geoffrey! I've been eyeballing that book forever at the stores, but it's always in shrink-wrap. I have a few questions for you or anyone else who has the book.

1. What's the map like?

2. I get the sense that this campaign setting is a frontier region with more populated areas beyond Blackmoor. Is this true?

3. How difficult would it be to use in the World of Greyhawk?

Thanks in advance for your time.

Sieg Wrote:Geoffrey,

Good review, and agreed on the waste of material (these are reviews from an OOP gamer's PoV after all!).

Plunderer of the Planes Wrote:Nice reviews everyone. I'm divided on Blackmoor, on one hand I would like to have it for the old school factor, on the other I have all but swore off D20 stuff.

Yeah I could convert it to C&C but I would rather not have to do that. Is there any chance that if C&C gians the popularity we think it will that A version of Blackmoor will come to that system?

Omote Wrote:Is there a large poster-sized (color) map available... anywhere?

Is there a reprint of this book planned (other then via .pdf)?

Steve Marsh Wrote:If you've seen Dave Arneson's rules that he published as what he really intended, you can easily see that "massively different" from D&D isn't extreme enough to describe how different they were from what Gary did.

Steve Marsh Wrote:Gygax carried the load time and time again, and in Blackmoor, you need to assume that anything that isn't in terms of the Arneson rules was probably typed by Gary, and with the gaps filled in by Gary, etc.

3RD21ST Wrote:Ok, so this is a computer game, right? I am presuming that the character creation will be based upon OD&D? This project may make many people happy.