Aldarron Wrote:Havard has encouraged us to take a closer look at the Wizards Cabal lately and thats prompted me to reread the Zeitgeists' TWC and offer some musings on the mage wars.

Quote:Note that the approach taken here owes no allegiance to 3e D&D, so 3e concepts are necessarily modified. Instead, the concept of magic is that present in FFC Blackmoor, and to some extent in Adventures in Fantasy, and of course Dragons at Dawn.

To explain, basically there are two ways of using magical energy:

1) Refined Magic - Time consuming processes using Components. This requires tangible items to for the magic to function or to be created. Magic items, potions, amulets, runes, scrolls, powders etc. Wizards practice component magic.

2) Raw magic. – the raw power itself. This can only be cast by wizards as very crude energy (“lightning, fire, etc.). Elves, those unworldly magical beings, have developed complex “songs” that can shape raw magic directly into spell effects. Some humans have learned some Elfin Magic but never past 3rd level. Its just not physically possible for normal humans. Gods however are of course well capable of mastering such magics and granting ready powers to their priests.

Quote:Okay - The Mage wars.

Blackmoor is a land brimming with raw magic.

The description of the Mage Wars in TWC is really cool. It gives the history of Blackmoor as a number of major events. Here’s the first five:

Quote:1) Blackmoor a land peopled by tribal humans, Elves, Dwarves
2) Conquest and settlement by Thonia
3) Influx of Wizards, drawn to the magical nature of the land, carving out territories
4) “Mage Lord” period – within a few years of settlement, all new territory is taken and the wizards begin to consolidate political power and fight each other. 4 major factions are formed.

The timeline to this point is remarkably similar to the history of the first century of settlement in Iceland. Except the “mages” in Iceland were the Priest/leaders known as Godi.

Quote:Continuing
5) Rise of Skelfer Ard and a new faction which defeats the other four and forms the Wizards Cabal to rule all.

Some things odd here. Lets look at the text:

"The Thonians, of course, did what they had to do: They sent word back home, offering incentives such as land, riches, and political influence to powerful wizards who would travel north and assist in the colonization efforts. Some wizards had already arrived, with the initial colonists,but after the Emperor’s call went out, arcanists arrived in Blackmoor by the boatload.

Quote:…wizards began declaring portions of the North as their own. It was only a few at first, and they claimed tracts of land on which no one lived. Their numbers grew swiftly, however, and the size of the land each wizard wanted grew as well. More wizards came out of seclusion, seeing what was happening and determined not to be left behind." (TWC, p4-5)

Thus leading to the Mage Wars. That part makes sense. It also is pretty clear that this is all happening in a fairly short period of time, years or decades at most, within the lifetime of wizard Kargas Dolunt.

Now here’s the problem. Thonian (Great Empire) conquest takes place in year 1. The mage wars are listed as starting in 815!!!!!

Quote:Something is clearly wrong. The sequence of events in TWC works well, but not if it somehow takes 800 years for the Mage Wars to erupt. The dates for the Mage Wars must be scribal errors. Likely they should be 15-90.

This means that Blackmoor was ruled by the Wizards Cabal for nearly 1000 years. Barons, appointed by the Thonian/Great empire were likely “puppets” chafing under the yoke of the real power in the land. No doubt much intrigue occurred.

Quote:Okay, lets look at the next major event:

6 Suppression of the Sorcerors.
Now, who were the enemies of the Cabal; the great threat to their control of Blackmoor’s magic? Who were these sorcerers? The answer lies in the types of magic. The only non wizard magic is the song magic of the Elf Mages and the Priestly (wokan) magics. The priests seem to have formed an uneasy truce with the Cabal by promising to not interefere with them.

That leaves only the Elves… Its no coincidence that in the TWC's possibly one sided history, the first "target" of the nascent Cabel was a Half elf mage named Raddan. The next faction targeted was founded by Surrinya Vadaley and led by daughter Ellierre - very elvish sounding names to me.

Elves once claimed Blackmoor and controlled its magic. The few tibes of humans (picts) in the area were of no great consequence. When the wizards came, the elves were in the way and had to be shoved aside. As I see it Elf and half elf mages are the "sorcerers" of the TWC history. For nearly 1000 years, Elves were suppressed by the Cabal and rarely left the security of their forests. (This will add complications to the Temple of the Id story – to be dealt with later.)

Quote:Continuing with the history – events 7-10

7) First coot invasion. Coot defeated.
8) 2nd Coot invasion. Cabal defeated.
9) Elves and Barons defeat Coot forces and free Blackmoor
10) Cabal returns as an ally of the Barons.

Quote:There’s more in the TWC history, but I’ll stop here for now.
Okay, to this point the history is a kind of fascinating blend of FFC, DA and original material. It gets a little more complicated, but as we close in on Uthers period, a couple trends can be seen.

a) The Elves have tolerated the Cabal and their hatred, largely out of aloofness, for 1000 years, but the Coot victory was the final straw and matters were taken into their own hands.
b) Uther is a friend of the Elves
c) With Uther in power and elves in favor, the remnants of the Cabal must not be happy.

Contrary to what I was thinking before, It makes sense that they would try to kidnap Uther - as in the DA Adventures in Blackmoor module - and attempt to restore their authority in Blackmoor.

Havard Wrote:Interesting ideas there! Personally, I am too attached to the idea of Divine Magic being separate from Arcane Magic, but otherwise I do like the idea of Refined Magic vs Raw Magic.

Havard Wrote:My only problem with this description is that it ignores many of the established facts of the timeline. This can be excused since the focus is on mages rather than everything else happening, but it a fact worth keeping in mind when reading that text...

and

Note again what I mentioned in the Blackmoor-centrism thread. The idea of "arcanists by the boatload" fits very poorly to the idea of how magic is presented in other Blackmoor sources...

and

This is one possibility, but it is very hard to reconcile with various sources.

Havard Wrote:In my Blackmoor, I have another approach.

Blackmoor may have been founded in year 3, but this was little more than a small outpost with a single castle (a small keep really) built by King Robert. The surrounding lands were mostly wilderness, home to elves, monsters, giants and elder demons. Nothing really happened in the north during the next 500 years.

Then, around the year 500, the Cult of Id appears and the small outpost of humans in Blackmoor is forced to ask the elves for help. The Cult is crushed, but betrayal on the part of the humans lead to division among the elves, and the decline of the elven race begins.

100 years later, the Peshwah encounter Blackmoor for the first time. Having had unpleasant encounter with Thonians to the south previously, they attack Blackmoor. The ruler at the time, Kargas Passiac Dolhaunt is forced to improve the Castle's fortifications.

Then Kargas late in his life makes discoveries that draw mages to the north, leading to the Mage Wars in 815.

Havard Wrote:Continuing with the history – events 7-10

7) First coot invasion. Coot defeated.
8) 2nd Coot invasion. Cabal defeated.
9) Elves and Barons defeat Coot forces and free Blackmoor
10) Cabal returns as an ally of the Barons.

This part is not satisfactory IMO because it diminishes the role of Fant, Svenny and all of Arneson's campaign. With Skelfer and Raddan gone, I see the Cabal being seriously weakened. When Skelfer sets up the Cabal, part of his goal is to keep the mages out of politics. While Raddan enjoyed a great deal of independence, his removal leads to Blackmoor returning firmly as part of the Thonian Empire. Subsequent rulers are not magic users and the Cabal works to support the rulers, regardless of their policies.

Havard Wrote:Your model differs alot from what is written in other books, but I think you might be onto something here. A conflict between the elves and the Cabal is interesting. Another thing worth noting is that according to DA1, the Cabal (or the darker sides of the Cabal if you wish) is secretly funded by the Duke of Marban. The Cabal may have their own agendas, but the Iron Duke supports them as one of his many schemes to undermine Uther and bring Blackmoor back into the fold of the Empire. Gaining control of Blackmoor, the Iron Duke can turn to his true goal of becoming Emperor himself. :twisted:

By the way, if you havent already done so, read Zimriel's Blackmoor Gazetteer. It is an incredible resource when it comes to Blackmoor lore, including Arnesonian lore that is not printed anywhere else.


-Havard

Aldarron Wrote:Thanks for the thought provoking responses Havard!

Quote:I think you can seperate out divine magic without hurting the idea much.

Quote:I'm not so sure about what's established fact outside of the FFC, and original Blackmoor player comments, but which sources were you thinking of? I haven't read the d20 sourcebooks or the 4e one, something there?

Quote:Anyway, what if we think like a post catyclismic historian for a moment and imagine that all the sources are ancient and suspect, as you would do in real life trying to piece together a history from a handful of chronicles. Some of the "authoritative" sources can't really be trusted at all, and some of those biased works actually contain contextual facts.

Quote:"by the boatload" - yeah its a bit exxagerated in tone but then again a boat load might only have been 20 or 30. The picture though, of a wilderness whose magical nature is an irresistable attraction to wizards, who come in like a goldrush, forming rapid settlement and conquest is a very intriguing one..

Quote:Yes, I think that its entirely possible to fit in the TWC timeline this way and keep the 815 date. I didn't stick with that idea really because it seems too implausable to me that Blackmoor could have trade, travel and some settlement, some wizards, and contact with the world at large in general, and still somehow remain a secret to all but a few wizards for 800 years. I mean, one of the central themes, from the FFC onward is how special the magical nature of Blackmoor is. The Wizards Cabal book makes it a central motivator for the stampede of mages into the place, the mage wars, and the reason for the council.
So, if we accept that Blackmoor is to wizards like an oilfield to EXXON, then the 815 date just doesn't work. Of course, there's always some way or other to get around such problems if you feel you need to.

Quote:I completely agree the player contributions should not be diminished, but I think that it can all fit together either way.

Quote:I'm seeing the Cabal as being repressive and self interested. Not altruistic at all. In fact I was again struck with the parrallels in feel between Blackmoor and Herbert's Dune, with the Cabal being a lot like the benegessirit and Spacing Guild, controling a precious recource.

Havard Wrote:

Aldarron Wrote:"by the boatload" - yeah its a bit exxagerated in tone but then again a boat load might only have been 20 or 30. The picture though, of a wilderness whose magical nature is an irresistable attraction to wizards, who come in like a goldrush, forming rapid settlement and conquest is a very intriguing one..

I think we have a similar view of this. I agree that wizards will have been drawn to the magic of Blackmoor at some point, but that the number of individuals drawn to the north will still be limited. Of course, "Arcanists by the boatload" could be taken to mean wizards and their retainers. If we are thinking in terms similar to the Ars Magica RPG, wizards will usually be accompanied with a number of assistants, apprentices, bodyguards etc, which can better justify the "boatloads" phrase.

Havard Wrote:I think the question is what Blackmoor is like before Kargas Dolhaunt's discovery. I place this discovery to the year 600 because I connect Kargas and Pissaic. It is Kargas who discovers the unique magic of Blackmoor, drawing so many mages to the north. During the previous 600 years I see Blackmoor as a wild place with a remote colony. I don't find it strange at all that the discovery has not been made prior to this. It has just been to far removed for any competent mages to go there. There may be a few exceptions, and perhaps some of them even knew about this magic, but managed to keep it to themselves?

Havard Wrote:Actually, I don't like the idea of Sildonis being the "High Spellwise" of the Cabal. I think the Wizards of the Woods should have been separate from this organization since the days of Pete, and Wizardly function even the Cabal respected as independent.

Now that I think about it, it could be interesting if the tradition of the Wizard of the Wood actually went back to Kargas. We are never told the true fate of Kargas, and it would be interesting if he went on to become the first Wizard of the Woods, a secret later learned by Pete and continued by Sildonis?


-Havard

Aldarron Wrote:That makes a lot of sense. I'm sure you've played with these kinds of numbers before but a very rough estimate of the number of possible territories can be got by looking at the sq miles of Blackmoor - 4346 in the FFC. If you figure a very rough average of 20-30 miles per territory (DMG gives 30 miles but looks more like 20 in AIF) that's 150-200 wizards total. Even double that figure isn't an outrageous number in a population of tens of thousands. Also, a good portion of those mages could actually be elves.

Quote:Yeah the idea of frontier outpost or even abandoned and returned to wild is definetly workable for game play purposes, but I'm still seeing it as a hard sell for a more detailed worldbuild. It's seems at least somewhat unlikely that even the way you outline it, the special magical draw of Blackmoor (something we need to work on defining) would go unnoticed for so long. But if you consider that Blackmoor Castle wasn't the only early settlement in the region - Booh, Vestfold, Maus - I'm a lot more comfortable with redating the Mage Wars to the earlier time.

Quote:I can see pro and con for a connection between Wood and Cabal, but either way I like the idea of a lineage from Kargas to Sildonis as Wizard of the Wood.

Havard's Secret Project #15 Wrote:NC 820: The Mage Wars are now broken into four factions: Blackmoor (Raddan Goss), Duchy of the Peaks (Vadaley) and two others (Erak, Maus) as well as “the Bystanders” (Bramwald, Vestfold, Archlis).

Havard Wrote:Archlis is the only other settlement we know is involved.

-Havard

Aldarron Wrote:Glendower too, I think, according, IIRC to one of those MMRPG newsletters.

Quote:Regarding keeping the elves out - I see the elves as having a kind of proprietary/protective feeling about Blackmoor. It would be easy to see at least some of their magic users becoming alarmed that human wizards are staking claim to Blackmoor magic and Blackmoor territory and banding together to oppose it.

Now, let it be known that anybody who does a similar write-up on RJK's World of Kalibruhn and the Maze of Zayene series can expect a permaban from this page. Not joking. Please wait until September.