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+--- Thread: Maus and Lankhmar (/showthread.php?tid=570)
Maus and Lankhmar - Havard - 01-17-2011
Compare this to the Blackmoor map of the lands surrounding Maus....
![[Image: n-lankhmar-continent.jpg]](http://www.quest-bird.com/nehwon/maps/n-lankhmar-continent.jpg)
-Havard
Re: Maus and Lankhmar - Rafael - 01-17-2011
I hate you.
And more when you're right.
Pffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff.
Re: Maus and Lankhmar - Rafael - 01-17-2011
(Awesome find. - Also check "SINKING LANDS". -!!!)
Re: Maus and Lankhmar - Rafael - 01-17-2011
Ahem, also, "Frog-Ton", and consider the tale "When The Sea King's away" (Leiber, 1960) as a possible source for the frogling idea.
Re: Maus and Lankhmar - Havard - 01-18-2011
Thanks! I was quite excited when I found this.
I noticed the Sinking Lands right away, but I only saw Frog-ton when you pointed it out. Interesting indeed! I also noticed the Isle of Xenophon. A connection to the Tower of Xenopus from Holmes D&D?
From what I have read so far, it looks like Leiber's Sinking Lands are quite different from those in Blackmoor, but it seems likely that this is where Arneson got the idea anyway.
"When The Sea King's Away" sounds like it is worth investigating. Thanks for pointing it out!
I'm glad you started the reading list thread, or we might never have come across all this!
-Havard
Re: Maus and Lankhmar - Rafael - 01-18-2011
Hehe, thanks, man, and my apologies - didn't want to seem like I was whipersnapping or whatever;
it's just that we need to expand the corpus of our research if we are to understand the setting in all it's depth.
However, the question would likely be, which of this is Arnesonian, and which of this was added by the staff at TSR?
As to Leiber, I've always evaded him; his prose is little above the usual dime novel or bluebook, and his ideas are fairly unoriginal if one knows later fantasy (at least from what I recall).
His body of work is extensive, though. For our BM-related research, I would recommend we focus on the first eight (!)
anthologies of F&GM, published until 1968.
Swords and Deviltry (1970). Collection of 3 short stories.
Swords Against Death (1970). Collection of 10 short stories.
Swords in the Mist (1968). Collection of 6 short stories.
Swords Against Wizardry (1968). Collection of 4 short stories.
The Swords of Lankhmar (1968) (expanded from "Scylla's Daughter" in Fantastic, 1963)
The "Sea King" story is contained in "Swords in the Mists", IIRC.
As to how influencial he might have been, just check this cover:
![[Image: Heroes_and_Horrors.jpg]](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/b6/Heroes_and_Horrors.jpg)
Yepp, that could be a huge find.
Re: Maus and Lankhmar - Havard - 01-18-2011
Rafael Wrote:Hehe, thanks, man, and my apologies - didn't want to seem like I was whipersnapping or whatever;
it's just that we need to expand the corpus of our research if we are to understand the setting in all it's depth.
Not at all mate! If you hadnt questioned the conventional wisdom, would we have made these discoveries?
Quote:However, the question would likely be, which of this is Arnesonian, and which of this was added by the staff at TSR?
I am not too interested in that actually. IMO Blackmoor was always a shared creation, with contributions from players, publishers, editors etc. But its always nice to examine Arneson's interests, since he is the true creator and at the settings core.
Quote:As to Leiber, I've always evaded him; his prose is little above the usual dime novel or bluebook, and his ideas are fairly unoriginal if one knows later fantasy (at least from what I recall).
Not really fair to call them unoriginal when you compare them to works that were published later though, is it? But I see what you mean. I thinking about picking up the comic book version since they apparently are illustrated by Mike Mignola.
Quote:His body of work is extensive, though. For our BM-related research, I would recommend we focus on the first eight (!)
anthologies of F&GM, published until 1968.
Thanks! I will keep this in mind
Quote:As to how influencial he might have been, just check this cover:
Sweet. We could have both the Frogmen and the Sahuagin right there. Interestingly Froglin and Sahuagin were connected in Dungeons of Castle Blackmoor.
-Havard
Re: Maus and Lankhmar - Rafael - 01-18-2011
Havard Wrote:Not at all mate! If you hadnt questioned the conventional wisdom, would we have made these discoveries?
Hehe, I am glad that we're opening a few new dimensions there, then.
Lankhmar will be definitely interesting to explore, and a lot of the other magazine culture fantasy as well...
Quote:I am not too interested in that actually. IMO Blackmoor was always a shared creation, with contributions from players, publishers, editors etc. But its always nice to examine Arneson's interests, since he is the true creator and at the settings core.
The reason I mentioned this is basically because I'd like to find out what are filler names and what are not;
for example, that "Tower of Glass" thing - did Arneson develop this, or was it added by TSR without any greater background or meaning?
Quote:Not really fair to call them unoriginal when you compare them to works that were published later though, is it? But I see what you mean. I thinking about picking up the comic book version since they apparently are illustrated by Mike Mignola.
Sure, but... Read at least a few of the stories, and you will know what I mean; in the end, very conventional, somewhat Conanesque fantasy stories, IMO neither the best nor the worst of what was published at the time.
Quote:Sweet. We could have both the Frogmen and the Sahuagin right there. Interestingly Froglin and Sahuagin were connected in Dungeons of Castle Blackmoor.
I found that I had the book in German all along, and I think I'll take a look later tonight, so we clear this up...
But again, I think the very first frogmen are from Edgar Rice Burrough's works - but I am not sure from which one....
Re: Maus and Lankhmar - DungeonDevil - 01-19-2011
Quote:The reason I mentioned this is basically because I'd like to find out what are filler names and what are not;
for example, that "Tower of Glass" thing - did Arneson develop this, or was it added by TSR without any greater background or meaning?
The Tower of Glass (at least one of them) comes from Irish Mythology. It is thought to be on Tory Island.
Re: Maus and Lankhmar - Rafael - 01-19-2011
Yepp. Yet, there is a 60s sci-fi novel of the same name by Robert Silverberg that very much fits into the overall tone of the Valley of the Ancients/City of the Gods plot.
Namely, it features humanoid androids, and a Egg-of-Coot-like entity; and, more importantly, it is used as the wharf to a City-of-Gods-like spaceship.
So, to make that connection is very, very likely to make, given other aspects of the campaign as well.
Now, since the tower is not mentioned before DA 3, I think, the big question remains if it was a place that was later dropped in by the TSR staff, or intentionally put there by Dave Arneson - which, for the question about where he drew his inspiration from, is integral, in the end.