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+--- Thread: Lorraine Williams (/showthread.php?tid=453)
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Lorraine Williams - Havard - 08-30-2010
Ever wondered what she looks like?
http://blackmoormystara.blogspot.com/20 ... liams.html
Havard
- Rafael - 08-30-2010
Yeah, but was she really such a c***?
Everyone talks of her like the devil, but was she really?
After all, she has never been given the chance to give her own version of the story, at least as far as I know.
- In the sense that it was under HER rule, not Gary's, that D&D became that sort of a mass phenomenon. Still she gets a worse press than Count Strahd von Zarovich.
- Havard - 08-30-2010
I'm not making any judgement. Usually there's more than one side to a story. However, the stories about how TSR was managed both before and under Williams do not smell of professionalism much. OTOH I wasn't there.
Havard
- Rafael - 08-30-2010
Sure. Then again, where did the main critics go after she took over?
None of them except Gary (and on a rather limited scale) ever had any notable success with RPGs again. That cannot be just because some IPs were taken away from them.
OOOOOOOOOOOH RAFE DOES THE SUCRILUDGE. :wink:
What I just observe is that people talk about Williams as some talk about Arneson - "nono, their contribution wasn't all that great".
Well, at least their life isn't so empty they have to spend their days building an e-reputation exploiting their part time jobs from 40 years ago.
Or, in other words, I really hate Tim Kask.
Re: Lorraine Williams - Rizak the Really Horrible - 08-30-2010
Havard Wrote:Ever wondered what she looks like?That's the best picture anyone can find of her? What, is she multi-coloured and has a shovel coming out of one end?
http://blackmoormystara.blogspot.com/20 ... liams.html
Havard
- Havard - 08-30-2010
Oh dear, I have opened up the flood gates now, have I?
Rafael Wrote:Sure. Then again, where did the main critics go after she took over?
None of them except Gary (and on a rather limited scale) ever had any notable success with RPGs again. That cannot be just because some IPs were taken away from them.
OOOOOOOOOOOH RAFE DOES THE SUCRILUDGE. :wink:
Heh. Remember that this is a public forum Rafe...
While D&D did prosper under Williams, it was also during her management that D&D dwindled into the sad thing it was prior to the sale to WotC.
Quote:What I just observe is that people talk about Williams as some talk about Arneson - "nono, their contribution wasn't all that great".
I wasn't there and I agree that making assessments based on statements from bitter old men alone is pretty stupid. The whole Arneson Law Suit/Blumes Brothers/Ousting of Gary period seems to have been a very painful time for those who worked for TSR back then and were friends with Gary. So painful that many of them still have hard feelings about 30 years later. Whether one or two individuals are to blame for this, or whether the whole climate was so unhealthy someone had to loose is hard for me to say.
Quote:Or, in other words, I really hate
I dont think people who express bitterness about things that happened so long ago are worth hating. Much more, I am frustrated with the people who listen uncritically to such tales and repeat them elsewhere.
Havard
Re: Lorraine Williams - Havard - 08-30-2010
Rizak the Really Horrible Wrote:That's the best picture anyone can find of her? What, is she multi-coloured and has a shovel coming out of one end?
*lol*
According to Monte Cook, she usually dressed in bright colors.
I would love to see other pictures if someone has them.
No Riz, don't go there...
Havard
- Rafael - 08-30-2010
I don't want to flame anyone, of course, and I like all of the grandes of the time. Still, maybe due to the fact that my personal form of gaming is influenced by smaller writers - Aaron Allston, Carl Sargent, and being and Paul Jacquays being among my main influences - I am far less inclined to engage in nuthuggery.
I am sure glad for all the stuff the old TSR guard did, but at the same time, I think nobody of them is still involved in for-profit game design, and so, some should tone down their attitude, as simple as it is.
Sigh...
Why can't everybody be like good Frank Mentzer?! He is never arrogant, always helpful and never exceeds his own reputation anyway else than "I was a game designer many years ago". That's the attitude I want to see.
Also, I don't really hate Mr Kask. :wink:
- Havard - 08-30-2010
Rafael Wrote:Why can't everybody be like good Frank Mentzer?!
+1
-Havard
- aldarron - 09-08-2010
When I graduated from Penn State back in 1990, I went to work for an after martket suspension company that produced "lift kits" to raise the body of pick up trucks and jeeps as was very fashionable amoung the good rural folk in the 1980's. The company had made millions, and had been fairly carefree about managing the company. When I started to work for them, they had a new, hot shot management team and were tightening up all departments. Still, they lost money hand over fist and evenutally closed.
Moral of the story is that if your product is popular, you can be a terribly managed company and still get rich. When the fad is over, it doesn't matter how well managed a company you become, sales will still plummet.
I don't think LW's management skills, or lack thereof, are to blame for TSR's success or failures. Although, they certainly should have been able to remain a viable business, as WOTC has proven.
In my mind, the true downfall, of LW, and frankly Gygax lack of business savy for hiring her in the first place, is that she apparently knew nothing about, and had no respect for, the RPG's her company marketed.