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+---- Thread: [OD&D] Balrog (/showthread.php?tid=1936)
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[OD&D] Balrog - Havard - 12-13-2014
Came across this at Dragonsfoot
DuBeers Wrote:Here you go, right from the original source:
ALIGNMENT: Chaos
NUMBER APPEARING: 1-6
ARMOR CLASS: 2
MOVE IN INCHES: 6/15 (ground/flying speed)
HIT DICE: 10
% IN LAIR: 25%
TYPE OF TREASURE: Type F
BALROGS: Balrogs are highly-intelligent monsters with a magical nature. There is a high probability that spells will not work against them. To determine success of spells use a base of 75% resistance at the 11th level and adjust upwards or downwards in 5% increments, i. e. a 12th level Magic-User would have a 70% chance of resistance. Balrogs cannot be subdued, but they can be enlisted in the service of a strong chaotic character. There is, of course, always the possibility that the Balrog will attempt to assume command himself, for Chaotic creatures will generally obey a Balrog before a human (except for an Evil High Priest who is slightly more influential). Balrogs have those characteristics indicated in CHAINMAIL, but when fighting fantastic opponents they attack in two ways each turn: The normal attack is with a magical sword of +1 value, and if the Balrog immolates (any score of 7 or better on two six-sided dice, check each turn of melee) it also attacks with its whip. If the whip hits the Balrog drags the opponent against its flaming body, doing two, three or four dice of damage (depending on size)! In this manner a Balrog can fight one or two opponents at the same time.
Here is what Chainmail says about balrogs:
BALROGS:
A Balrog is a truly terrible opponent.
Balrogs cannot be killed by normal missile fire or in normal combat.
It inflicts casualties in combat as if it were two Heavy Horse.
In addition, the Balrog can immolate any normal figure it touches during its move or melee.
They operate equally well in darkness or in light. They can fly 15" per turn, and remain airborne for three turns.
Morale Rating: 50
Point Value: 75
With the many references to Balrogs in the FFC and other tales from Dave's campaign, I think it might be useful having that here.
-Havard
Re: [OD&D] Balrog - Yaztromo - 12-13-2014
Many references indeed, but nevertheless this is the first time that I see the full game description with stats.
Where does it come from, exactly (i.e. what is the "original source" mentioned)?
Re: [OD&D] Balrog - Havard - 12-13-2014
Yaztromo Wrote:Many references indeed, but nevertheless this is the first time that I see the full game description with stats.
Where does it come from, exactly (i.e. what is the "original source" mentioned)?
I think this is from the 1974 D&D Monsters & Treasure Booklet, the printing before the Tolkien Estate lawsuit against TSR.
-Havard
Re: [OD&D] Balrog - Yaztromo - 12-13-2014
Never had the pleasure to hold it in my hands... thanks for reporting this bit!
PS I expected the Balrogs to be more powerful than 10 HD...
Re: [OD&D] Balrog - Vile - 12-14-2014
Well, in '74 power bloat hadn't hit yet so 10HD was probably up there with the big guys. Not in the same league as purple worms, but the same as mid-range giants or dragons.
I always did wonder why purple worms were so formidable. I assume Dune had something to do with it. I remember reading something about the topic on the OD&D Discussion boards, I think.
Re: [OD&D] Balrog - Havard - 12-14-2014
Vile Wrote:Well, in '74 power bloat hadn't hit yet so 10HD was probably up there with the big guys. Not in the same league as purple worms, but the same as mid-range giants or dragons.
I always did wonder why purple worms were so formidable. I assume Dune had something to do with it. I remember reading something about the topic on the OD&D Discussion boards, I think.
In some early source material, Purple Worms are described as Purple Dragons IIRC. Perhaps that has something to do with it?
-Havard
Re: [OD&D] Balrog - Yaztromo - 12-14-2014
Vile Wrote:I always did wonder why purple worms were so formidable. I assume Dune had something to do with it. I remember reading something about the topic on the OD&D Discussion boards, I think.
Sounds like a good guess!
Re: [OD&D] Balrog - Vile - 12-17-2014
I believe there was a distinct point between Chainmail and OD&D when the dragon also known as a purple or mottled worm ceased being draconic and became nematode. In fact they predate Chainmail:
http://odd74.proboards.com/thread/8122/ ... nmail-1969
But by Monsters & Treasure they were big worms, and didn't the mottled version resurface in similarly slimy form as the mottled worm in Blackmoor at some point?
Sorry, getting off the balrog topic a bit now! But it seems interesting to me that the purple worm became so much more powerful than anything else, at least in terms of hit dice. I stick by my Dune theory!
Re: [OD&D] Balrog - Havard - 12-18-2014
That is a great link Vile, thanks!
The Dune Series is not a bad theory. I have previously argued that Dave could also have been inspired by Frank Herbert. Ofcourse there is also the obscure reference to Were-wûrms in the Hobbit, which Tolkien based on the Mongolian Death Worm, but I am not sure Gary would have caught that one.
-Havard
Re: [OD&D] Balrog - finarvyn - 12-18-2014
Havard Wrote:there is also the obscure reference to Were-wûrms in the Hobbit, which Tolkien based on the Mongolian Death WormI hate to further derail a thread which has already been derailed, but can you tell me more about this? Peter Jackson has them in the 3rd Hobbit movie and I'll be darned if I can recall where they come from. (Also there is a reference to giant bats which eludes me. I must be having a rough day. :? )