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+--- Thread: Wizards Cabal and the Empire (/showthread.php?tid=1280)
Wizards Cabal and the Empire - Havard - 08-11-2012
What are the relations between the Wizards Cabal and the Thonian Empire? Is the Cabal allowed to operate within the Empire the same way that it is in the North?
-Havard
Re: Wizards Cabal and the Empire - gsvenson - 08-11-2012
My thought is that it is specifically located within Blackmoor.
On the other hand, the D&D movie included a wizard's cabal within Thonia. They seemed to be the ineffective ruling council of the empire...
Re: Wizards Cabal and the Empire - Havard - 08-12-2012
gsvenson Wrote:the D&D movie included a wizard's cabal within Thonia. They seemed to be the ineffective ruling council of the empire...
Interesting. The Empire from the movie was called Izmer/Izmir. Although Arneson did suggest it could exist on the same world as Blackmoor ("Beyond the great mountains") I assumed it was a different country than Thonia?
Quote:My thought is that it is specifically located within Blackmoor.
I agree.
The Cabal was founded in the North as a way to end to the Mage Wars. This was all connected to the magical energies found in this particular region.
It occurs to me that the Wizards Cabal may have had a greater influence in other parts of the Empire before Uther's rebellion. While I doubt they were ever in a position like the one they currently hold in Blackmoor, Ursula Zov's accord with Uther may have caused the Cabal to become shut completely out of the Empire.
This is a price the Cabal may have been more than willing to pay, as their primary interests are in this part of the world, not the empire.
I suspect that Wizards in the Empire are instead forced to serve the Throne. Sorcerers are hunted down as in the North, but this is done by Wizards who are loyal to the Emperor, perhaps with the help of Clerics and Imperial soldiers/Inquisitors.
The Scoll and Blade may be one of the few arcane organizations able to operate both within Blackmoor and Thonia.
-Havard
Re: Wizards Cabal and the Empire - aldarron - 08-13-2012
The BTPbD manuscript assumes that all wizards are members of one guild or another. You could extend that idea to Thonia/great empire in assuming that there are a number of ancient and rival wizard guilds, none of which is strong enough to dominate all the others. that also makes some sense for Blackmoor in that wizards moving in just prior to the mage wars, may have often been motivated in part to escape the oversite/authority of the old guilds.
Re: Wizards Cabal and the Empire - Havard - 08-15-2012
Aldarron Wrote:The BTPbD manuscript assumes that all wizards are members of one guild or another. You could extend that idea to Thonia/great empire in assuming that there are a number of ancient and rival wizard guilds, none of which is strong enough to dominate all the others. that also makes some sense for Blackmoor in that wizards moving in just prior to the mage wars, may have often been motivated in part to escape the oversite/authority of the old guilds.
Its interesting how the Wizards Guilds thing goes back to BTPBD. I wonder if this was part of the motivation for the re-writing of the Wizards Cabal in the d20-line? OTOH, the 3E Wizard/Sorcerer divide sure was an influence as well.
Having rivaling wizardly organizations drive mages away from the Thonian heartlands fits fairly well with the pattern of many different groups emigrating to the North to get away from Thonian dominance. The Wizard groups may easily have squabbled over the good-will of the Emperor. DA3 suggests a very tightly controlled Empire, at least by 1025.
OTOH, the mages were also drawn to the north because of the strong magical energies in the region, most likely caused by the magic infused minerals of the region.
-Havard
Re: Wizards Cabal and the Empire - Havard - 08-22-2012
Continuing this topic a bit,
I am trying to compile a list of known members of the Wizards Cabal:
High Spellwise Circle
Ursula Zov (Human Female) - High Spellwise of War
Sildonis (Human Male)- High Spellwise of Knowledge
Veda Sonrean (Human male)- High Spellwise of the Mystical Arts
Mengar Torerdyn (male half-elf) - High Inquisitor
Kyoryl Maloune (Human female)- Profector General
Other Known Cabal Wizards
Col - Clockwork Inquisitor (Trusted agent of the Cabal)
Stur Nigby - Friend of Kyoryl (mentioned in TWC)
Jallapierie - Member of the Regency Council, Teaches at Blackmoor University
Bosero the Drunkard (Aka John Snider)
Robert the Bald - Master of Cloudtop**
**=Robert the Bald is probably the most powerful Wizard in the world. He prefers keeping to himself and may not even be a member of the Cabal. Perhaps they are even afraid to ask? Some say that Robert has achieved enough power to become a God and is simply maintaining a presence at Cloudtop to conceal this fact.
Note: According to DA1, Tamis Azkanikin is the leader of the Wizards Cabal. However, he is also responsible for the Vestfold Revolt. Most likely he would have been retconned into a member (leader?) of the Eldritch Underground had he been included in the ZGG line.
Note2: The above characters were taken from DAB D20, TWC and DA1-4.
Thoughts?
-Havard
Re: Wizards Cabal and the Empire - aldarron - 08-22-2012
There's a bunch more mentioned in the MMRPG if you were inclined to fill out the list that way.
Re: Wizards Cabal and the Empire - Havard - 08-22-2012
Aldarron Wrote:There's a bunch more mentioned in the MMRPG if you were inclined to fill out the list that way.
Might get to that later on. What I am mainly interested in at this point are the big players on the "arcane scene". Some material suggests that the Cabal will turn against Uther eventually. For some reason I cannot see Sildonis, Jallapierie, Bosero or Robert the Bald supporting action against Uther. Actually DA1 does describe Sildonis as susceptible to mood swings, but still that would be extreme even for him.
I am less sure about the other "Spellwises". Especially if they fall under the influence of the Egg.
I also find it odd that Jallapierie doesnt have a more formal position within the Cabal. I always saw him as their ambassador with the King. It would seem likely that he would hold some kind of title?
-Havard
Re: Wizards Cabal and the Empire - Greg - 12-08-2018
Havard Wrote:Its interesting how the Wizards Guilds thing goes back to BTPBD. I wonder if this was part of the motivation for the re-writing of the Wizards Cabal in the d20-line? OTOH, the 3E Wizard/Sorcerer divide sure was an influence as well.
Having rivaling wizardly organizations drive mages away from the Thonian heartlands fits fairly well with the pattern of many different groups emigrating to the North to get away from Thonian dominance. The Wizard groups may easily have squabbled over the good-will of the Emperor. DA3 suggests a very tightly controlled Empire, at least by 1025.
OTOH, the mages were also drawn to the north because of the strong magical energies in the region, most likely caused by the magic infused minerals of the region.
-Havard
I was reading DA1 earlier today and was struck by how different the Wizards' Cabal is in that adventure vs. the D20 line. Does anyone know exactly why the Cabal was so dramatically rewritten, other than the 3E wizard/sorcerer divide?
In DA1, the Cabal is a subversive organization funded by the Iron Duke of Thonia, with a goal of destroying Blackmoor from within. That is a completely different concept from the relatively benign version of the Cabal in D20. This is why I am surprised to see that some readers interpret the Cabal as an evil organization in D20. The Cabal of DA1 would seem to be much more evil and villainous, especially with a commitment to destroying Blackmoor.
In contrast, the Cabal in D20 might be a bit oppressive or heavy-handed in its opposition to sorcery, and there might be a few older members who still believe wizards should rule the world, but it otherwise seems supportive of Blackmoor and King Uther, and willing to help defend the kingdom.
Re: Wizards Cabal and the Empire - Yaztromo - 12-08-2018
Havard Wrote:Other Known Cabal WizardsIn MMRPG Episode Innuendo there is also an Inquisitor called Dolor, that is a heavy handed one.
Col - Clockwork Inquisitor (Trusted agent of the Cabal)
Stur Nigby - Friend of Kyoryl (mentioned in TWC)
Jallapierie - Member of the Regency Council, Teaches at Blackmoor University
Bosero the Drunkard (Aka John Snider)
Robert the Bald - Master of Cloudtop**