+- The Comeback Inn (https://blackmoor.mystara.us/forums)
+-- Forum: The Garnet Room - Blackmoor General Forum (https://blackmoor.mystara.us/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=34)
+--- Forum: Zvenzen's Freehold - General Chat (https://blackmoor.mystara.us/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=13)
+--- Thread: [Industry] Escapist: State of D&D Present (/showthread.php?tid=1060)
[Industry] Escapist: State of D&D Present - Havard - 12-29-2011
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/article ... -D-Present
Interesting article.
-Havard
Re: Escapist: State of D&D Present - Julian Grimm - 12-29-2011
Very interesting indeed. After reading some statements by Mike Mearls I am interested in what the next edition will look like. If it wasn't for my lack of funds I could see myself buying into the Essentials line based off what I have seen from it.
Re: Escapist: State of D&D Present - heymikey - 12-29-2011
The biggest take away I get from this article is, "thank the Thonian gods for Ryan Dancey and the OGL". Since its implementation I can play an in print version of whatever game I like.
Re: Escapist: State of D&D Present - finarvyn - 12-30-2011
There are actually two articles in the series so far:
1. The Ghost of D&D Past
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/article ... f-D-D-Past
2. The State of D&D Present
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/article ... -D-Present
Both are interesting to read.
Re: Escapist: State of D&D Present - finarvyn - 12-30-2011
Julian Grimm Wrote:I could see myself buying into the Essentials line based off what I have seen from itI have the Essentials line and I don't see that much difference between it and 4E. Or, to be more specific, I don't think that Essentials brought 4E close enough to the old school feel I was hoping to find.
Consider this:
Rules Compendium (page count = 320)
Heroes of the Fallen Lands* (page count = 365)
Heroes of the Forgotten Kingdoms** (page count = 365)
Dungeon Master's Book (page count = 270)
Monster Vault (page count = 320)
That's over 1600 pages of Essentials rules.
hock: * Clerics, Fighters, Rogues, Wizards
** Druids, Paladins, Rangers, Warlocks
Consider OD&D:
Men & Magic (page count = 34)
Monsters & Treasure (page count = 40)
Underworld & Wilderness Adventures (page count = 36)
Greyhawk (page count = 68)
Blackmoor (page count = 60)
Eldritch Wizardry (page count = 58)
Gods, Demigods & Heroes (page count = 68)
That's about 360 pages for OD&D. Half of Blackmoor is a module, half of Eldritch Wizardry is psionics artifacts. I don't use those. And I probably shouldn't even count GDH since there isn't an equivalent book in the Essentials line.
What I would have liked to see is an Essentials player book, a GM book, and a Monster book each at aound 100-120 pages. Even something more like AD&D in size. That would have been awesome!
Re: Escapist: State of D&D Present - Havard - 12-30-2011
heymikey Wrote:The biggest take away I get from this article is, "thank the Thonian gods for Ryan Dancey and the OGL". Since its implementation I can play an in print version of whatever game I like.
Yes. The OGL has done wonders for the world of gaming
-Havard
Re: Escapist: State of D&D Present - finarvyn - 12-31-2011
It's actually a three-part article.
Overall, I think it's pretty well written. Especially the part where they discuss D&D re-designers taking inspriation from video games and producing a game which isn't very DM friendly but instead gives too much power to the players.
I feel the pain of that.
Re: Escapist: State of D&D Present - Rafael - 01-01-2012
Yawn.
To paraphrase:
"It's not that our game was bad, it's the market."
Rather than that, the problem Wizbro has been facing is that all the guys who made 3e good now work for other companies.
And, that Hasbro is milking the company locust-plague style to get their yearly profit rates.
But that's not the only thing. Slavizcek and Collins made decissions that were outright detrimental to the hobby.
Some were probably motivated by "that big corporation that has no heart for you fans, that we, to the contrary, love",
but most of what happened is really their responsibility.
I could rage on for pages and pages about this...
Or I could have a picture say it for me:
![[Image: 51hMXJR-UwL._SL500_AA300_.jpg]](http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51hMXJR-UwL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
Re: Escapist: State of D&D Present - Rafael - 01-01-2012
Or, I'll rant a bit:
Fans love OGL. WotC tries to kill OGL.
Fans love to buy PDFs online. WotC forbids PDF sales of their products.
Fans love Living Greyhawk. WotC kills Living Greyhawk.
Fans say, Eberron weird. WotC makes Eberron canon setting for D&D Online.
Fans love Forgotten Realms. WotC kills Forgotten Realms as we know it.
Fans love Dragon and Dungeon. WotC makes Dragon and Dungeon weird collection of blog articles that are shit to print.
Fans want better product quality and better maps. WotC publishes unedited products and worse maps.
Fans want Dragonlance, Greyhawk and Ravenloft back. WotC brings back Dark Sun.
Fans want separate miniature game. WotC merge miniature game with normal D&D. With even shittier maps.
Fans want trimmer rulebooks. WotC publishes a ruleset that is 700 pages of "core rules", and 1800 pages of "essentials".
Fans say, bring old designers back. WotC fires Richard Baker.
Nothing of this is exaggerated.
Nothing of this made up.
The brand management of D&D ever since Monte Cook, Erik Mona, and SKR left the company has been simply, truly stupid.
Re: Escapist: State of D&D Present - finarvyn - 01-01-2012
No doubt that the folks in charge of D&D at WotC have a very different notion of what the fans want than the fans do. Your examples certainly prove that.
The one positive I take from the whole article is the notion that WotC may actually be trying to figure out what the fans want again, and may try to create a new edition that does what we want. Maybe they actually intend to do it like they say they do, or at least try to come up with something that both 1E and 4E fans can enjoy together.
It does bother me a little that so many fans scoff when WotC says they want to listen to their fans, and I wonder if it's more of a "fool me twice" mentality or if it's just cool to bash WotC no matter what they do. If 5E turns out the be an awesome reboot of AD&D, for example, how many old school gamers would complain that it's not OSRIC or B/X or something like that?