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+---- Thread: "Return to the Temple of the Frog", Wizards, 2007. (/showthread.php?tid=619)
Re: "Return to the Temple of the Frog", Wizards, 2007. - Havard - 07-12-2018
Rafael Wrote:"Could", yes. "Should", no.
Yeah, it is, in principle, possible to "fix" this adventure. But why? -
The point is not to fix the adventure. The idea is to expand on it.
Why are we talking about this adventure? Because it is published and available to all fans. That makes it part of the common foundation that we all share.
Quote:Fang is the central antagonist of most storylines evolving around BM town. Do we really bring him to TotF and CoG, as well? I mean, one thing is to have a recurring villain, the other is to use a limited set of ideas.
Now that is a fair question.
Now, I don't know if I agree that Sir Fang is overused, but even so, I do like the idea of expanding Vampire mythology of Blackmoor beyond a single character. I wrote about Blackmoor Vampires and their Bloodines in this article.
I like the potential this adventure has for expanding this lore. If St. Stephen wasn't sired by Sir Fang, then who sired him? One of Sir Fang's spawn? Or a separate bloodline alltogether?
-Havard
Re: "Return to the Temple of the Frog", Wizards, 2007. - Rafael - 07-13-2018
Havard Wrote:Why are we talking about this adventure? Because it is published and available to all fans. That makes it part of the common foundation that we all share.
That "common foundation" is perhaps something that I'd dispute, but I get what you're trying to say.
- Well, sure, in principle it is possible to expand on the adventure in a way that is sensible. The question is whether it is also necessarily an interesting choice, or, generally, recommendable to DMs. In my opinion, it's not - if only because a "Return" adventure implies that there was an introductory adventure before, and this "Return to the Temple of the Frog" isn't really built in a way that makes a connection to the earlier modules easy, or, from a narrative point, even plausible.
Quote:Now, I don't know if I agree that Sir Fang is overused, but even so, I do like the idea of expanding Vampire mythology of Blackmoor beyond a single character. I wrote about Blackmoor Vampires and their Bloodines in this article.
I like the potential this adventure has for expanding this lore. If St. Stephen wasn't sired by Sir Fang, then who sired him? One of Sir Fang's spawn? Or a separate bloodline alltogether?
Might be me misremembering, but doesn't St Stephen get a pretty defined origin as an alien cyborg in the original DA tales? Why not go with that?
Now, if we HAVE to make him a vampire, I'd emphasize a Greyhawk connection - that the Suel, Greyhawk's "High Thonians", have vampire gods:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beltar_(D ... 26_Dragons)
https://www.dragonsfoot.org/forums/view ... 33&t=59018
So, make that goddess Thonian, and you have an environment where you can place St Stephen.
Since "Beltar" is a swamp-dweller, that's perhaps also where you can bring the Velya in.
Doesn't explain why Stephen would reside over a tribe of murderous froglings, though. The adventure wouldn't be "Temple of the Frog", then, it would be "Temple of the Aqua-Vampires".
hock: ... But this concept perhaps may serve a starting point.
Re: "Return to the Temple of the Frog", Wizards, 2007. - Rafael - 07-13-2018
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhacophorus_vampyrus
....Oooookay, maybe there is more potential there than I thought.
hock:
Re: "Return to the Temple of the Frog", Wizards, 2007. - Rafael - 07-13-2018
*Reporting live from my morning coffee ritual.*
...I think the idea is growing on me. The adventure was honestly pretty terrible, but with the basic premise, one could perhaps tell an interesting tale.
Re: "Return to the Temple of the Frog", Wizards, 2007. - RobJN - 07-14-2018
Rafael Wrote:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhacophorus_vampyrus...I was just going to say "Why not both?" :lol:
....Oooookay, maybe there is more potential there than I thought.
RE: "Return to the Temple of the Frog", Wizards, 2007. - Xylarthen - 08-19-2022
I don’t think Stephen being a vampire replaces his origin from Supplement II or DA3, but rather, it adds to his later development. He is turned into a vampire after the events of DA3.
In DA3, it is stated that there is a Mirror of Life Trapping located somewhere in the temple. Within the mirror is a vampire. RttTotF states that Stephen, after returning to the destroyed temple, accidentally releases the vampire, which proceeds to turn him into a vampire.
- Xylarthen
RE: "Return to the Temple of the Frog", Wizards, 2007. - Havard - 08-23-2022
(08-19-2022, 10:32 AM)Xylarthen Wrote: I don’t think Stephen being a vampire replaces his origin from Supplement II or DA3, but rather, it adds to his later development. He is turned into a vampire after the events of DA3.
In DA3, it is stated that there is a Mirror of Life Trapping located somewhere in the temple. Within the mirror is a vampire. RttTotF states that Stephen, after returning to the destroyed temple, accidentally releases the vampire, which proceeds to turn him into a vampire.
- Xylarthen
Ooh, I had missed the part about the Mirror of Life Trapping. I do like that part.
Got a page number for that?
-Havard
RE: "Return to the Temple of the Frog", Wizards, 2007. - Xylarthen - 08-23-2022
(08-23-2022, 04:51 PM)Havard Wrote:(08-19-2022, 10:32 AM)Xylarthen Wrote: I don’t think Stephen being a vampire replaces his origin from Supplement II or DA3, but rather, it adds to his later development. He is turned into a vampire after the events of DA3.
In DA3, it is stated that there is a Mirror of Life Trapping located somewhere in the temple. Within the mirror is a vampire. RttTotF states that Stephen, after returning to the destroyed temple, accidentally releases the vampire, which proceeds to turn him into a vampire.
- Xylarthen
Ooh, I had missed the part about the Mirror of Life Trapping. I do like that part.
Got a page number for that?
-Havard
Page 43, Room 50 - the Public Archives.
- Xylarthen
RE: "Return to the Temple of the Frog", Wizards, 2007. - Havard - 07-25-2024
This link should work for downloads.
-Havard
RE: "Return to the Temple of the Frog", Wizards, 2007. - Rafael - 07-28-2024
Ah, thanks for bringing this one back!
I think my verdict from back in the day still stands - it's not per se a "bad"/badly crafted adventure, but honestly pretty uninspired. (Mostly) Old maps with new encounters, not a tasty formula, even for a freebie. -- That said, I equally still appreciate that this was done, for the love of it.