Compare this to the Blackmoor map of the lands surrounding Maus....



-Havard

I hate you.

And more when you're right.




Pffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff.

(Awesome find. - Also check "SINKING LANDS". -!!!)

Ahem, also, "Frog-Ton", and consider the tale "When The Sea King's away" (Leiber, 1960) as a possible source for the frogling idea. :)

Thanks! I was quite excited when I found this.

I noticed the Sinking Lands right away, but I only saw Frog-ton when you pointed it out. Interesting indeed! I also noticed the Isle of Xenophon. A connection to the Tower of Xenopus from Holmes D&D?

From what I have read so far, it looks like Leiber's Sinking Lands are quite different from those in Blackmoor, but it seems likely that this is where Arneson got the idea anyway.

"When The Sea King's Away" sounds like it is worth investigating. Thanks for pointing it out!

I'm glad you started the reading list thread, or we might never have come across all this! :)

-Havard

Hehe, thanks, man, and my apologies - didn't want to seem like I was whipersnapping or whatever;
it's just that we need to expand the corpus of our research if we are to understand the setting in all it's depth.

However, the question would likely be, which of this is Arnesonian, and which of this was added by the staff at TSR?

As to Leiber, I've always evaded him; his prose is little above the usual dime novel or bluebook, and his ideas are fairly unoriginal if one knows later fantasy (at least from what I recall).

His body of work is extensive, though. For our BM-related research, I would recommend we focus on the first eight (!)
anthologies of F&GM, published until 1968.

Swords and Deviltry (1970). Collection of 3 short stories.
Swords Against Death (1970). Collection of 10 short stories.
Swords in the Mist (1968). Collection of 6 short stories.
Swords Against Wizardry (1968). Collection of 4 short stories.
The Swords of Lankhmar (1968) (expanded from "Scylla's Daughter" in Fantastic, 1963)


The "Sea King" story is contained in "Swords in the Mists", IIRC.

As to how influencial he might have been, just check this cover:






Yepp, that could be a huge find.

Yepp. Yet, there is a 60s sci-fi novel of the same name by Robert Silverberg that very much fits into the overall tone of the Valley of the Ancients/City of the Gods plot.

Namely, it features humanoid androids, and a Egg-of-Coot-like entity; and, more importantly, it is used as the wharf to a City-of-Gods-like spaceship.

So, to make that connection is very, very likely to make, given other aspects of the campaign as well.

Now, since the tower is not mentioned before DA 3, I think, the big question remains if it was a place that was later dropped in by the TSR staff, or intentionally put there by Dave Arneson - which, for the question about where he drew his inspiration from, is integral, in the end. :)