Hey Tavis! Welcome to the Comeback Inn. What took you so long? ;)

There's a discussion on that topic but I don't know how much that solved.

I would be interested in hearing what you and other people make of this though.

BTW: In the ZGG thread linked above, Sheridan links to a revised map for Dungeon Level 1. The link no longer works. Does anyone have the file?

Havard

Yeah, I found that thread but found it not very helpful. I think that making the d20 book faithful to the FFC was a bad decision because there are some errors in the FFC that seem like they were clearly introduced in the process of making those maps from Arneson's original notes. Going back to those notes, or reconciling some of the obvious discrepancies (e.g. changing the compass rose if a level has to be rotated in order to line up; correctly labeling which directions stairs go), would have made a more valuable product.

Here's what I know so far:
- Levels 1 and 2 line up with one another pretty well; they don't have to be rotated, although the maps could be redrawn to provide better superimposition (sometimes the stairs are close enough to guess they're the same, but not exactly).

- Not counting the Orchian Way and the main entry stairs from the basement, I've labeled the stairs on the first level with a letter followed by numbers for which levels they provide access to. Running roughly clockwise, these are A1?, B12, C12, D12, E12, F012, G12, H01, I12, J012, K01, L12. (In other words, stairway J goes from the surface or basement level, to level 1, to level 2: stairway H goes only from level 1 to the surface, stairway G goes only from level 1 to level 2; and stairway A goes from level 1 to some level I haven't figured out yet).

- On the second level some new stairs appear: M02, N02, O02, P2?, Q2?, R2?, S2?, T2?, U2?, V2?, W2?, X2?, and Y2?.

One way of presenting this, I think, will be to make a chart showing each staircase and what levels it goes to. I've thought of naming each one to make them easier to track than just letters. However, it looks like there's a lot of stairs just on the two levels I've started with!

Another way would be to make a map (perhaps isometric) that shows the stairs and levels together. However, I don't want to infringe on the copyright of the maps (esp. since at least the d20 book is commercially available). Maybe I'll draw the cross-section with very little detail on how things connect on each level, just focusing on the stairs and where they go?

I've started using the image program GIMP to superimpose the levels. Ultimately I'll do a schematic of the corridors and staircases - with enough detail to understand their interconnections, but not enough to replace the commercially available maps - but (as I also posted at the OD&D boards) so far the project isn't ready to leave the underdark.

Even from the first three levels that I've figured out, it's clear that this is the most spatially complex megadungeon I've ever seen; the subareas in Caverns of Thracia often span multiple levels, but each is limited in extent and usually have simply two or three entrances and exits. The levels in Blackmoor are large, massively interconnected, and broken by the cave-ins into small subregions that you often have to go up, then down, then across etc. to enter.

Fascinating. I've read through the original a good score of times and the ZGG re release twice, but never actually ran the thing and never realized there were complexities with the stairs. I wonder if Clingman or Quinn have any info about that? One project I plan to get to at some point is comparing The A&E report and Svensons first adventure report with the maps to see what might be seen there.

Well, I've now seen a I'm thinking of doing a similar schematic for Blackmoor Dungeon, although since the levels are more tightly stacked like a layer cake this would look more like a zoom in of the Splendorous Deeps' Upper, Middle, and Lower Commons.

On reflection the FFC map is not as hard to use in play as I first thought. 80% of the staircases I've looked at so far do what you'd expect just by lining up the pages (none of the first six are rotated or more than an inch out of alignment) and guesstimating where it comes out on the level above or below. (A fair number of these are mislabeled as to whether they go up, down, or both, though.)

It's the remaining 20% that go down four levels in a stack; go down two levels, skip one, and re-emerge on a fourth; go up and emerge in a column that isn't marked as a secret door/stair on the map; go up to the surface (I presume) from many levels down; or go down without coming out yet anywhere I can see!