At it again I am. The following awaits your commentary (or rotten tomatoes if preferred). Rather than one giant post, I've broken it into three for everyon's convenience. I've removed system specific stuff. Oh and this is an FFC ordered timeline, with the priority being FFC/Garbage Pits and Player recolections > DAB books > DA series. With small exceptions, this is meant to flesh out the timeline the 4eTFC, pg 147-8.

Know, oh Prince…
The Northern Marches lie on a world with two moons and wondrous magic (Greg Svenson, Blackmoor forum). It is a swamp and lake riddled, far northern region of some 4,346 square miles (FFC80:17) in which, unsurprisingly, winter is no stranger, typically lasting from October till May. (FFC80:26) The native population of the north includes orcs, elves, dwarves, ents, and hobbits. (FFC, DA1:4).

Once, long ago, the kingdom of the Elves stretched across the North, from coast to coast. (PG:197; 4eTFC:183) As the numbers and strength of the Elves has slowly waned, humans and others have moved in and cobbled together several polities. Hereafter follows that history in brief:

- 800 (+/- 300)
Construction of the great tower of shining blue glass in the Valley of the ancients. (4eTFC:192, true date unknown)
Humans known as Picts begin settling within the borders of the Elven Kingdom. The Picts are a freshwater based culture who build their settlements on islands within the rivers and swamps. (FFC 80: 86, Havard- Arneson letter) Initially, the Picts rely on bronze technologies, are highly superstitious and follow the leadership of religious leaders called wokan. (TWC:3; DoCBM:7 – The history of Callas Anethenitos. the earlier parts of which are considered largely apocryphal by most authorities) (wokan – 4eTFC:99)

0 -
Founding of the Great Kingdom, (Grand Kingdom) southeast of the Northern Marches. (4eTFC:148)
Beginning of the reign of Uhlmar Ithamis, Lord of the Elves. (Havard, date approximate)

26 –
Establishment of a trading post at Maus. (4eTFC:167, date derived from TWC:3 ”almost immediately after the founding of the empire”)

324 – 398
Rule of the Mad Wizard over the Black Moors of the North. Fortifications are built on the future site of Blackmoor Castle on top of Cumasti Elf ruins. The wizards laboratory is built nearby. The mad wizard’s defeat in battle resulted in the creation of a 60’ wide “bottomless” crater – The Wizards Pit - where his laboratory had been. (4eTFC:157, 158;”clear signs of Cumasti craftsmanship.” “ruins of at least three previous layers”, dates assumed/approximate)

398 –
A group of ambitious wizards found the Red Coven and establish a settlement in the diamond rich Superstition Mountains Called by some the Land of the Red Coven, it becomes more formally known as the Duchy of the Peaks. (D&DSuppII:37; true date unknown but Red Coven in the “Northwest” assumed to be associated with the Duchy of the Peaks due to the names of Superstitions, Starmorgan, Starport)

440 -
Conquest and settlement by Robert I, king of All Geneva. He creates a ducal seat (assumed by later references to dukes) at “Blackmoor” and builds a fortification at Glendower (Rampart#10, presumed date) and builds Blackmoor Castle over the Cumasti and Mad Wizard ruins on Dragonsrock. (FFC80:17 Date must predate Temple of Id and post date Mad Wizard. FFC dates never exceed 5 or 6 centuries and there is no reason whatever to push back the date of Blackmoor castle further, creating centuries of empty history. Note: Dragon Rock probably was meant to refer to Serpent Rock island in Blackmoor bay, but I choose to mis-read “Dragon Rock, the hill where Blackmoor Castle itself stands,” as one thought.)
Early, Thonian settlers begin to clear the land and establish hamlets and farms utilizing hay based agriculture. In addition to sheep (DW42:M3), they begin to domesticate the large wild bison that constitute one of the most common wild animals in the area. The domesticated bison soon become the dominant farm animal in the Northern Marches. (FFC80:17)

450 –
Uberstar Khazakhum establishes the Great Mines at Mount Uberstar. (DA1:63; 4eTFC:189 “nearly 600 years of mining”)

471 – 497
The Bloody Duke, a sadist and architectural megalomaniac, reigns in Blackmoor Castle. He greatly expands the dungeons to a depth of 11 levels or more, connecting to even older passages and giving the levels their present form. (DoCBM:184,185 “hundreds of years”; 4eTFC:158; FFC80:21, date assumed to be related to construction of the Temple of Id, which is known to connect by tunnel to Blackmoor dungeons)

474 –
Construction of the Temple of the Id. (FFC80:18, DoCBM:146 ”Worship of Id started shortly before the year 500.” date based on the supposition that the temple was not operational for more than a few decades )

497 –
The Bloody Duke killed in his own dungeon by 13 escaped prisoners. (DoCBM:184,185)

500 –
Destruction of the Temple of Id. (FFC80:18)
An Evil wizard imprisoned in a workshop he has constructed in The Wizard’s Pit. (FFC80:21)

An interesting and highly academic discussion so far.

I may be all messed up, but I tend to think of the FFC as being the most fundamental source, followed by the DA modules, and lastly the 3E/4E material. Logically I guess it comes down to the notion that FFC was 100% Dave, the DA modules were written some by Dave and some by others, and for the 3E stuff I can't decide how much Dave wrote versus how much he consulted.

Add to that the fact that there are many Blackmoors, and each has its own dates. I tend to default to the original campaign where possible, but Blackmoor is also blended with the Wilderlands (Judges Guild) campaign, Mystara (DA) campaign, and perhaps others. I get to where I can't keep 'em all straight anymore, which is what has limited my own attempts for a timeline project. :(

To play devil's advocate, however, I can see where one can argue that the newest material reflects what Dave inteneded, and that it corrects and supercedes previous versions. I just like the FFC so darned much....

*Ding ding ding ding*

Every contestant, back into his corner.


Aldy,

The thing is, your theory IS logical, and sound, and etc. BUT the simple fact is, it's not true.

We have a couple of written and vocal statements that say otherwise.

The point is, frankly, Mr Gygax was one of the kind that eternally strove to diminish the contributions of virtually anbody else,
and so much of the info is simply hidden, blurred, or virtually impossible to obtain, because some people might not tell you the truth - as idiotic as it is.

Now, as to Ross' compilation of notes, the thing is simply, IT WORKS.
For a long time, it was the only resource available, and it was received by the gaming community as an authority,
to the point where the Zeitgeist Games crew moronically copied and pasted it into their books because they were too lazy to check the resources for themselves. (Be aware that this supposedly means Mr Arneson checked and greenlit it.)

ALSO, and most importantly, I think there is, in general, no definitive answer to events that had no impact on the in-game reality whatsoever. Would, for example, the Temple of the Id being founded a thousand years ago instead of five hundred, impact the actual gaming experience in any noticeable way? - I don't think so.

So, what are we talking about here, again?

Purely fluff info that really can be easily adapted.

If there is anything I would criticise about this thread, it is the false notion that an ongoing game where towns are named after whisky bottles, NPCs after friends and buddies, and dungeons after garden decoration, has anything but a fixed frame and is not subject to endless spontaneous alterations.

Remember, a faithful fictionalized version of the actual real game was never done!


So, PEACE, everybody! IT'S JUST A GAME...

You are a wise man Rafe, but I'm a stubborn old cuss....

As you point out, it is all irrelevant background fluff, mostly.

Only way the early timeline matters really is in choosing a "present" for the campaign. My own is set during the height of the Id cult and reign of the Bloody Duke.

True about the Gygax situation. One thing struck me the other day as I was reading some of his webposts where people were crediting him with all kinds of things, I've never seen him say "Oh that was Dave Arnesons idea (or Rob Kuntz or Law Schick or anybody)".