Taken from: http://www.acaeum.com/forum/about9723.html

Posted there on Wed Mar 03, 2010 5:25 pm

“ART CHOSE ME, I DIDN'T CHOOSE ART”
Interview with Larry Elmore
by Ciro Alessandro Sacco

Larry Elmore is purely and simply one of the best fantasy artists ever and surely one of my favourites. Many, many gamers remember him for the great covers and artwork done for TSR Inc and, especially in Italy, for his amazing work on the Classic Dungeons & Dragons game (from Basic to Immortal boxed sets): his appearances in our country are always packed events and there is a very long line of fans of every age asking for an autograph or a drawing. I discovered Larry Elmore’s wonderful talent when, in 1986, I bought my very first copy of the Classic Dungeons & Dragons Basic Set (the famous ‘red box’) and became a great fan of his work. It’s a great honour and privilege being able to interview one of the Masters of Fantasy Art.

Q: as usual for our interviews, give us some background info about yourself – age, studies, favourite pastimes (besides painting and drawing) and so on…

A: well, I am 61 going on 30...LOL, that is what my wife says sometimes, I think my art has kept me young at heart, I still enjoy all the things that I did when I was young. I think I actually appreciate everything more now than I did then. When we are young, we take too many things for granted.
My pastime or fun time is spent riding my motorcycle (finally got me a big Harley Davison) and running around in my old street rod. A 1930 Ford fixed up...has around 650 horsepower...it is fun!
I also like to go out and take photos of landscapes and 'things'....sometimes I get inspired for a painting while out taking photos.

I got an art degree from Western Kentucky University,I was drafted and I did my two years in the Army...after I got out, I worked as an illustrator for eight years before I went to work at TSR: I was 33 when TSR hired me. I worked for them around seven or eight years and went freelance in 1987. I have worked freelance everytime since then. Now I do more private contract work, I feel I paid my dues doing publishing work, all the deadlines and all nighters....GAAAK! Now I try to enjoy my art more and try to do more art for myself. I still do a little publishing for friends in the industry, but not much.

Some of the art that influenced me most was the realist artists around the turn of the last century, late 1800's –early 1900's. Also the Pre - Raphaelites and many illustrators in the early 1900's, especially the Brandywind School of artists. Also American western artists and illustrators.

Q: perusing your biography published on Wikipedia, I noticed you grow up in Greyson County, Kentucky. What kind of community was at the time?

A: in some ways it was a lot like the TV shows Mayberry and Happy Days rolled up in one. My county is very rural and only had three 'towns' (villages): the largest was the county seat (capitol) and it had a population of around eight to ten thousand people. It was a good time, a kind of innocent time for most Americans. We saw opportunities all around us, we had faith that we could/would be successful if we tried...I guess you can say America as a whole then was a lot more naive and innocent, it was a good time and place to grow up. We were poor (especially by today's standards), but we had pride, hope and confidence. It paid off for me. We also had a very strong attitude about work, hard work... a good, strong work ethic. The old saying was “Hard work never killed anyone” and ”An idle mind was the devil's playhouse”. It also was a very religious community, different religions, but everyone was a true believer - hardcore Christian! Also, I have been told that I am a Southern gentleman...well, I was surprised when I was first told that, but I must thank my mom and dad for that... for being polite, kind, treating people with respect and treating women like they are Ggds (smiles). Kentucky is considered part of 'the South' here in the US. And I loved its smooth 'laid back' culture. You don't see that much any more, even in the South.

Q: when did you develop your love for drawing and painting? What were the artists that influenced you and gave you the impetus for creating art yourself?

A: I have already covered some of the artists and art movements that influenced me... I started drawing when I was very young and I didn't start painting until my parents got me a set of oil paint for Christmas during my last year of high school. When I was very young, we lived in a very rural area and, like most houses in the country at that time, we didn't have electricity or indoor plumbing. I remember, many times, me drawing at the kitchen table at night, with only a kerosene lamp to see what I was doing. I loved to draw as a child and I love to draw now. I tell people that art chose me, I didn't choose art!

Q: were your parents supportive of your decision to be an artist?

A: yes, but back then no one in my area was an 'artist'... I had never met one! Also, I was the first one in my family to get a college education: most people became farmers or got a job at a factory, but my parents really instilled in me the idea that you could fulfil your dreams if you worked hard enough and didn't do something really stupid (smiles)!

Q: you got your bachelor degree in 1971 for Fine Arts in 1971. Assuming there were no fantasy or science fiction classes and perhaps such subjects were somewhat underrated by teachers, what kind of pieces did you create at the time? Historical?

A: I did surrealism....that was my excuse to paint things kind of realistic and my teachers didn't yell at me...LOL! I just didn't want to do abstract work, that is what they wanted me to do. I wanted to be an illustrator but at that time the teachers looked down on that kind of work, called it 'cheap commercialism', well, so what, that is what I wanted to paint and I did like Norman Rockwell's artwork, even if all my instructors hated him. Now he is a prominent American artist, I guess old Norman got the last laugh!

Q: in 1971 you were drafted in the US Army. How was your experience in the service?

A: yes, I was drafted...I didn't want to JOIN the army, hey, there was a war going on in Viet Nam and sure I didn't want to go there: I had friends that came home dead or wounded! Well, when I was in basic training, they told me I would be a perfect 'tunnel rat' because I was small and wiry. I had a friend that had been a tunnel rat and he was messed up...the job got to him! I sure didn't want that! But luckily for me, I was sent to Germany, where there were REAL CASTLES and OLD VILLAGES. I was in heaven. While I was there, I also toured Italy, France and part of Switzerland...all BEAUTIFUL. I loved it and wished I could live in any of those places...in some nice, beautiful little village.

Q: always in your Wikipedia biography I read that in 1973 you started working as an illustrator for the US government. What kind of art did you produce for Uncle Sam?

A: yes, after I got out of the Army, I worked there. I drew a lot of tanks and helicopters... soldiers and maps! Most of it was for instructors and their classes...some of it was for Army manuals. I learned about printing and I also developed a solid pen and ink technique while working there. Also I got to tour Fort Knox Gold Vault while I worked there, I had a secret clearance and did some work for the Treasure Department so they gave me a tour, which is extremely rare...really rare! And believe me, there is GOLD THERE! While I worked there, I started doing freelance work at home, which eventually led me to TSR and when they wanted to hire me full time....I did it!

Q: you were published in the National Lampoon and in the Heavy Metal? What kind of pieces did you publish in such magazines? Did your collaboration last?

A: for National Lampoon, I did a few silly things that they wanted me to illustrate, that was a time when that magazine was at it's height in popularity...Heavy Metal was also very popular then. For Heavy Metal, I sent in a couple of pieces to see if they wanted to publish them...and they did it. It excited me, I guess that really started me pushing my career in the direction of being a fantasy illustrator, much harder. Up to then, I had more or less settled into life, we had our two children and I wasn't pushing as hard as I should have been.

Q: it seems you were quite busy in the period, but nonetheless you managed to discover Dungeons & Dragons via a friend of yours. What was your first reaction to this amazing game with no boards?

A: I loved it...I thought it was the most fantastic game ever invented. I always liked games and made up a few of my own around that time, but that game just fascinated me. I guess because you used so much of your imagination...which I had too much of to begin with (smiles).

Q: when did you submit some pieces of yours to TSR? How long the company took to contact you?

A: a friend of mine sent in samples of his work and mine. They didn't like his very much, his work was very cartoonish, really: it looked like anime before anyone here had seen it! They contacted me within a few weeks and they wanted me to do a freelance piece for them....I did, they liked it and wanted to hire me... I didn't want to do that, I had a good job with good retirement. But they 'made me an offer I couldn't refuse'! The president of the company (Gary Gygax, N.d.R.) came to visit me and my wife... he hired both of us, doubling our salaries and moved us to Wisconsin - GAAA! Wisconsin was around five hundred miles from Kentucky!

Q: did you start working for TSR as a contributor or an employee? Did they as you to move to Lake Geneva immediately?

A: I think I answered that in the above question, but moving to Lake Geneva was part of their plan, I had to move if I wanted to work for them.

Q: when did you become an employee of TSR? Did you start immediately to work on Dungeons & Dragons new edition, the one written by Frank Mentzer?

A: I became an employee in the autumn of 1981. My first job?....hum, I can't remember, but I know they were kicking off the 'pick your own path' type of books for the young male market and I did the first four or five of those (he refers to the Endless Quest gamebook series N.d.R.). Also, they were starting with their new sci fi game, Star Frontiersand I did the covers of those. I think I did the Original/Classic D&D (red dragon) box cover in 1982. And I think I did the Companion box in '82 also. We were talking about DragonLance in 1982, but it was a 'dream' at that time.

Q: did you have any personal contacts with the late Gary Gygax? What were your impressions of him?

A: we became friends. I think there was much mutual respect from both of us. I thought he was a nice guy. I really didn't look up to him as a 'god' like many people did. I respected him as a person and his creativity. Gary was really a nice guy, once I got to meet him and get past his 'protectors of the god' people that seemed to surround him! When I first met him, I was going to his office to argue about something.....his secretary wouldn't let me in to see him because I didn't have an appointment! That really pissed me off because I could look in his office and see him just sitting there doing nothing... so I went past her and went on it to see him. I was prepared to really argue and tell him what I thought about some things. After we talked a minute, I found that all the things I was angry about did not come from him, and we saw things much the same way...I liked him! We were friends from that day on!

I think, because I had been so close to the military for so many years, and this was my first real true civilian job, that I had an attitude, I felt that if they didn't like my work, they could just fire me. The military had more power, back then you could not quit, and if you did something wrong or break some silly rule, they could put you in jail....not give you any money...then throw you out dishonourably... So, working for a normal company was EASY... I could always leave and they couldn't throw me in jail for breaking a little rule!

Q Tell me something about the project that lead to the birth of the DragonLance saga. Were you involved from the beginning? Was your contribution besides truly fantastic art?

A: Tracy Hickman and Harold Johnson (Tracy's boss) came to me about this big idea Tracy had - they met at my house one night and told me the fantastic story, I loved the idea... They wanted me to so some quick rough pieces of art for them to show when they took this project to the board of directors of TSR and make their presentation. I did and I attended the meeting to support the project. The Board liked the idea and went with it.

I was assigned Art Director of the project. It wasn't a real title with any power, it just meant I was responsible! All the artists got along really great, so it was a fun project that was only going to last a year or two - now look: a zillion years later and they are still publishing DragonLance!
I never got involved in creating the stories of DragonLance. I was too busy, I had a full time schedule at TSR during the day and at night I had a full time freelance schedule also. I always continued to do freelance work while I worked at TSR but I never did any art that would compete with any TSR's products.

Q: another very interesting project of yours, one I truly love and loved even in the ‘80s when finding Dragon magazine in Italy was a real feat, is SnarfQuest. Did you start the epic adventures of Snarf the Zeetvah when still being a freelancer or after becoming a TSR employee?

A: I started doing SnarfQuest the first year I worked for TSR. Dragon magazine wanted to do a full time 'strip' in the back of the magazine and they were taking proposals - to pick the one they wanted. I ask them if I could submit a proposal, even though I worked at TSR, and they said: “Sure”, as long as I did it on my own time, it would be freelance art - not to be done on 'company time' - so I did it.

The first five pages of the published SnarfQuest was my proposal... They liked it and wanted me to take it from there, which I did. I loved doing that strip... It seem to just write itself, the hardest part was the lettering, I did everything in that comic: writing, drawing, inking, lettering... everything. And I really loved it.

I still may do more with the strip, I really miss it and I didn't realize it until years later, just how many people read it (over and over) and loved it! I will be in a meeting this year, with a friend who draws a well known cartoon and we are going to discuss if we some way could work out a way to do SnarfQuest again... He was a big fan.

Q: besides Dragonlance and the remake of Classic Dungeons & Dragons, in what other projects were you involved in?

A: Star Frontiers, the Endless Quest books, did interiors for many products, I really don't remember exactly what all I worked on, I was there, I worked on whatever they told me to do....and seemed to me it was about everything. I don't think I did anythng for Ravenloft, that turned into Clyde Caldwell's baby and he didn't want anyone touching that but HIM!

Q: is true that TSR retained not the copyrights but the actual works artists created when being employed at the company and that the originals were returned, in part, only when Wizards of the Coast took over?

A: partly true... When I went to work for them, that was their policy, they owned it all: originals... everything. When Clyde Caldwell was hired, he nearly died when he found that out...he yelled and ranted about that for days, and then went to the 'higher ups' and threw a fit to them, saying it was immoral and things such as that (smiles)....He said things like, “My God, this is not the 1930's - this is 1983 and we MUST keep our own originals!”. We thought his crusade was hopeless, so we didn't stand behind him much on that, but HE WON! All by himself! It was great, and we thanked him!
But TSR still held on to the art we had done before they changed the rules. They refused to give that art back to us. And yes, when Wizards bought the company, they returned the art...a few pieces disappeared along the way, through the years, but I eventually got 95% of it all back.

Q: in 1985 Gary Gygax was ousted from TSR and a new owner took over, Lorraine Dille Williams, noted in fan circles as the Dragon Lady and target of much scorn. Did you had any contacts with her? What kind of memories do you have of the Dragon Lady?

A: well, at first we all stayed away from her...stayed out of her path....But eventually I ended up treating her just like I did Gary: if she didn't like me or thought I wasn't good for the company, then she could fire me...so what? I treated her with respect and she treated me the same, we became friends. I had some run-ins with her over the years and I know one time I was banned from doing any freelance for TSR. I saw her at Gen Con and told her we had to talk and she said, “We sure do...”. That kind of scared me, because I knew she was angry with me but I didn't know what for. So we talked and everything went great....we stayed friends and I got to do more freelance work for TSR.

Many times I totally disagreed with what she or Gary or all the management did with the company, and I would go to them and argue with them on what I thought was right, especially sticking up for the creative people that worked there. I wasn't afraid of any of them, all they could do was fire me, not put me in jail (smiles)...I was young and full of energy, but I always treated everyone with respect and stayed friends with them all.

Q: in 1987 you left TSR to pursue a career as a freelance illustrator. Was your decision simply a desire to be your own boss, own everything you produced and to be able to choose the projects to work on or there were problems at the company that made you leave TSR?

A: there were many reasons... Yes, I did want to be my own boss and see just how far I could 'fly....and yes, I did disagree with the companies attitude. We were the top company in the hobby industry, but they didn't want that, they wanted to be bigger, and they wasted millions of dollars...the management was slowly destroying the company with their fighting on who owned what and always about more money, more money...while they were losing and wasting millions. I couldn't take that, and I knew the company would have to be sold: I told my wife that they would last about another five years and they would be gone...I was wrong, it was only about three years! I didn't want to be depending on them for my total income when the company was sold either, I wanted to stand on my own two feet. Then the worst thing that could happen to me was - fire myself... right?!

Q: after leaving TSR, I remember you being involved with various game companies such as Imperium Games, Sovereign Press and Dynasty Presentations (where the great SnarfQuest was revived in the Games Unplugged magazine). What were your experiences working with these companies, especially Dynasty where SnarfQuest got a new story compilation, a card game and a d20 setting?

A: it was all fun... I mean, we were not always running around giggling ourselves to death, but, all in all, it was just fun. It was life, with all the fun things and bad things and unexpected things all thrown in together. A time of learning and living. During this time I started going to many conventions and I loved them, I loved the people I met, the other artists and writers and creative people... my fans.. I had such a great time at conventions and met so many wonderful people, many of these people are like family to me. I still go to several conventions a year, and still enjoy them very much!

Q: your most impressive presentation on your official website (www.larryelmore.com) list a great number of collaborations with many important fiction and videogame publishers. What is, in your opinion, the main difference in working with gaming and other kind of companies besides – I assume – being paid (much) better?

A: the pay is the biggest difference (smiles)! It is all about the same: you are trying to illustrate something to help sell the product, even though sometimes you know in your heart that what you are doing is not the best way to go, but you must do it 'their' way! The worst experiences have been from paintings that have been designed by committees. These are the most difficult ones to paint... Everyone, it seemed, had a say in the creation of some of these pieces and usually the painting sucked!

Q: you have a regular presence at various big conventions in the US and it seems that in recent years you started visiting European events too. Did you notice any significant differences between European and American fans?

A: no, not at all, they are the same, even the gamer fans dress the same as American gamers! Once or twice, in Europe,I have gotten lost in the city where the convention that I was going to attend was located. But every time I could spot gamers on the side walk and I would just follow them to the convention!

Q: What one piece of fantasy art from another artist would you most like to have created yourself?

A: a lot.. Every great painting I see, I say to myself: “Why didn't I think of that?”...But that is what keeps it fun and keeps you interested - always thinking: “The next painting will be a good one”!

Q: reading your site, I notice you have art classes for young and aspiring artists. Why did you start such projects? Did you find any very promising talents?

A: I started it because people kept asking me to do them....so I finally agreed. Yes, there is a lot of talent out there, but most of all, all of my students have been great people and I have ended up loving them like family..We have so much fun at the classes and I wouldn't trade that for anything!

Q: did you ever organize art classes in Europe?

A: yes, we did two in France, I would love to do more, but finding a place to stay and have the classes is the hard problem. We had a blast in France...I still want to do it again sometimes, at the same place, the owner of the inn was such a great guy and we became good friends.

Q: in 2003 you were on of the guests of honour at the Lucca Comics & Games convention, the first time (I guess) you were in Italy. During this great event there was an exhibit of various pieces of artwork of yours including the Extremely Famous Red Dragon for the Classic Dungeons & Dragons Basic Set. How was your experience in Italy?

A: I loved it, I fell in love with Italy and Italians... Oh, man, you guys are great people, I love how you live! The people that invited me and run the convention became like family, some of the greatest people I have met. If ever they want me as a guest again, I WILL GO... just to see my friends!

Q: Emanuele Vietina, convention coordinator for the Lucca Games convention, tells me there is an interesting backstory for this piece of art, something about not being seen in public for almost 20 years… Would you tell me (and to our readers) the story?

A: well, the Red Dragon, Basic D&D and also the art for Companion and Expert Sets were three works of mine that TSR had kept under those old rules (they owned the art) and these pieces (and more) had been stashed in a closet some place, so I hadn't seen them inYEARS... Then one day, Wizard sent the pieces to me...all the art that TSR had kept! GAAAA! Was I happy!!! And there at the Lucca Games convention was the first time they had gone on display since I had PAINTED THEM!

Q: after your first experience, you were back in Italy in 2008 – of course at the Lucca Games convention – where the late Gary Gygax was celebrated and remembered by many, many Italian fans. What were your feelings about Gary’s passing? And how was your second experience in Italy?

A: when Gary died I lost a friend, I did feel good that I had got to see him a few months before his passing and I had a chance to talk to him...it was a loss to a lot of people, I always think of his family. My second trip to Italy was just as good, I love going there! Emanuele and the 'gang' that run the convention are such great friendly people, they are like family to me and I really do miss them. They are so much fun and they are so so nice!

Q: in what projects are you involved at the moment? Any chance to see a new SnarfQuest book, perhaps collecting all the stories including the ones in Games Unplugged magazine?

R: I am working on a graphic novel, a private contract painting and a painting for myself—all at the same time! Like I said above, I am in the process of doing something with SnarfQuest, I just don't know what exactly right at the moment. Too many people want MORE SNARFQUEST - LOL! And I did love doing it, so don't give up on it - YET!

Q: is there any chance to see you in Italy again in the future?

A: I want to, really, I do love Italy!

Q: thank you very much for your time. It was a privilege and a honour being able to interview you!

A: thank you very much.

I am sorry for being so late in doing this interview. Feel free to edit it in any way you see that may improve it or clarify anything. My responses were just typing my flow of conscious thought, no editing... LOL... so you can 'clean it up'!

Thanks

Larry